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Where does it go? Does it fall into a hole? Vehicles either explode or are wrecked in either case emergency disembarkations are allowed.

Nah it is just removed and suffers neither a wrecked or explodes result so no way to deal with disembarked passengers.

This has to be one of the worst rules I've seen GW write. Now all the power gamers are looking for as many loopholes as possible to make this some uber-unit. All I know is that playing like people here are talking will quickly make you TFG at wherever you play.

If you want to be technical no Tyranid receives any bonuses from having CCWs... Those entire rules are redundant by RaW, so you can throw that at anyone be TFG.

This is a pretty uder attack but you are pay 170 points for it so it should be the Mawloc is a one trick pony and not much use otherwise. You just have to be sensible and not have your army bunched up for his 2nd turn onwards and certainly not on the ground floor of anything. Do that and the attack is pretty crippled.

I hate this rule so much, on so many levels...

I would probably play it as you move the vehicle to the nearest available, but it takes a penetrating hit, just because I like the idea of flinging a tank up through the air after getting caught from below by the mawloc. Plus, it sort of fits with the lifta-dropper rules for "picking up vehicles and tossing them aroun."

Pretty sad when the rules I find a "reasonable" analogue to make the ability work are in Apoc. Still, destroying seems a bit much, and there really isn't another good option. Blargh, hateful rules writing!

To be honest I have no sympathy for anyone that has this happen to them. Why surround your own vehicles like this if you know he has a Mawloc? The Mawloc comes up before the Tyranid player moves any models so you would have had to move your vehicle into such a predicament knowing he has a Mawloc?!?! Well if you're that dumb then you deserve to have it happen to you.

sarcasm/
Yeah, your mawloc came up under my titan and moved it into a building, destroying it.
/sarcasm

So this thing can kill baneblades and anything else that can't move; yippee, and that makes complete sense, how? Great nid tactic in apoc, stun the titan and then mawloc it ftw!

Ok so I wasn't finished being sarcastic.

I am a bit iffy on that.. I can see the rule lawyering allowing for that. All I can say is that I would be a bit miffed if my Grand master and his retinue disappeared because of something like this..

agnosto wrote:sarcasm/
Yeah, your mawloc came up under my titan and moved it into a building, destroying it.
/sarcasm

So this thing can kill baneblades and anything else that can't move; yippee, and that makes complete sense, how? Great nid tactic in apoc, stun the titan and then mawloc it ftw!

Ok so I wasn't finished being sarcastic.

I think you misunderstand.

the unit is moved, the unit is not moving itself. Stunned/immobilized vehicles are moved out of the way, if there is no where to place the unit, then it is destroyed.

so if you surround your baneblade with leman russes, and i pop a mawloc under your baneblade, then yes, your baneblade is destroyed. simple solution is dont surround your units like that, and you will be fine.

So this thing can kill baneblades and anything else that can't move; yippee, and that makes complete sense, how? Great nid tactic in apoc, stun the titan and then mawloc it ftw!

Well apocalypse is a different type of beats all together, still not sure why the models can't be moved? How would you stun a vehicle before your movement phase has started?

Immobilised Vehicles would probably be instant destroyed, but not sure on the exact wording as I've not my codex here but I imagine you'd just move them still as long as other restrictions apply, it is not moving by it's own volition. Like when you tank shock a spore it is still moved aside.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I think you misunderstand.

the unit is moved, the unit is not moving itself. Stunned/immobilized vehicles are moved out of the way, if there is no where to place the unit, then it is destroyed.

so if you surround your baneblade with leman russes, and i pop a mawloc under your baneblade, then yes, your baneblade is destroyed. simple solution is dont surround your units like that, and you will be fine.

Yeah cheers for that I thought that was the case. As I said due to the Mawloc coming up at the start of the Tyranid turn you've had to have moved your vehicle into that situation (i.e. surrounded it with Leman Russes) or at worst not moved it out of that situation (say he surrounded it with lictors the previous turn and you've decided to leave it there and not kill any lictors). Either way it is entirely your own stupid fault.

I think the rule is simply a special attack followed by a deployment that displaces an enemy units models in a way that mirrors tank shock, since both use similar language to each other.

The wounds from the special attack are rolled for and models are removed. The remaining models are moved distance to avoid the Mawloc's deployment so that it can enter play.

Effectively units are suppose to avoid moving through impassible terrain. To move the minimum distance necessary to avoid being placed in impassible terrain and the Mawloc you can simply place the model on the opposite side of the Mawloc. Thus unless you're playing a very wonky table designed to break the rules the maximum distance a model should ever end up moving is just beyond the largest dimension of the Mawloc's base.

As far as a vehicle surrounded by an enemy being moved by the Mawloc, I'd say the vehicle moves and the surrounding unit is simply moved aside. Otherwise the vehicle should simply be placed on the other side of the surrounding unit, the shortest distance in all directions from where it was. Even if a 40 model unit perfectly engulfs a vehicle before the Mawloc does his thing, thats at most 6-7" to clear the unit. More realistically, a unit will not so uniformly engulf a vehicle and there will be space to one side or another thats a little less than to move through the sea of models.

As far as this thing displacing titans, I don't think that should work. This is just my opinion. It just shouldn't work on Gargantuan creatures or superheavies.

It doesnt matter waht you think should work. The rules are clear that the only units that move are those that took hits.
It also says any models that cannot be moved out of the way are destroyed. So suppose I have a land raider surrounded by something like 10 rhinos. Mawlok hops up in the middle hitting the raider but no rhinos. Raider is dead, as it can move but the rhinos cannot. Nothing suggests that it moves units that were not affected. If your group wishes to play that way for some sense of balance or justice thats your choice, but its not RAW.

Avoiding impassable terrain means you cannot move through it, you have to move around if at all possible. If its not though then too bad.

Its really not that hard to avoid, its kinda gimmicky. Dont cluster everything up in a tight ball and the mawloc wont give you any problems.

Looks like the easiest way to kill a landraider.

Yes it is. Assuming that your opponent is fething stupid.

Anyone dumb enough to see a mawloc across the table, and their reaction is to deploy like that is going to lose anyways.

Agreed.

I do still think the Apocalypse rules will override it affecting superheavies and the alike.

aka_mythos wrote:I think the rule is simply a special attack followed by a deployment that displaces an enemy units models in a way that mirrors tank shock, since both use similar language to each other.

The wounds from the special attack are rolled for and models are removed. The remaining models are moved distance to avoid the Mawloc's deployment so that it can enter play.

Effectively units are suppose to avoid moving through impassible terrain. To move the minimum distance necessary to avoid being placed in impassible terrain and the Mawloc you can simply place the model on the opposite side of the Mawloc. Thus unless you're playing a very wonky table designed to break the rules the maximum distance a model should ever end up moving is just beyond the largest dimension of the Mawloc's base.

As far as a vehicle surrounded by an enemy being moved by the Mawloc, I'd say the vehicle moves and the surrounding unit is simply moved aside. Otherwise the vehicle should simply be placed on the other side of the surrounding unit, the shortest distance in all directions from where it was. Even if a 40 model unit perfectly engulfs a vehicle before the Mawloc does his thing, thats at most 6-7" to clear the unit. More realistically, a unit will not so uniformly engulf a vehicle and there will be space to one side or another thats a little less than to move through the sea of models.

As far as this thing displacing titans, I don't think that should work. This is just my opinion. It just shouldn't work on Gargantuan creatures or superheavies.

not to sound like a jerk, but have you actually read the rule?

you only move the models that are touched by the large blast marker, if they cannot be placed because of impassible terrain they are destroyed. others models are considered to be impassible terrain as per the BRB.
If it said you were allowed to shuffle models out of the way then sure, but if your unit is surrounded by models that are not touching the blast marker then im sorry, no dice.


Case 1, nothing is destroyed, vehicle moves out of the way
Case 2, vehicle has no where to go, and is destroyed.

You could deep strikes a few montrous creatures around it, and then bring up the mawloc.. It is still something that can be utilized relatively easily, no? It may not ever be any fault of the player that a Mawloc insta-destroys their landraider. I want to see this play tested a few times and see if it can actually be done well with intent.

Majesticgoat wrote:You could deep strikes a few montrous creatures around it, and then bring up the mawloc.. It is still something that can be utilized relatively easily, no? It may not ever be any fault of the player that a Mawloc insta-destroys their landraider. I want to see this play tested a few times and see if it can actually be done well with intent.

Id have to deep strike 2 trygons or spod fexs and something else in a spod, have it land in perfect formation, and the mawloc land. Sure its possible but its committing over 1k points to kill a raider in a very risky scenario. Screen it well.

Before I destroy anything I'll want a rule that tells me specifically to destroy it. End of story. I would go with what a TO says or I would be willing to completely screw the RaW and move my other models out of the way to make room fro the models being moved. I'm not destroying them unless it says too specifically though.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Before I destroy anything I'll want a rule that tells me specifically to destroy it. End of story. I would go with what a TO says or I would be willing to completely screw the RaW and move my other models out of the way to make room fro the models being moved. I'm not destroying them unless it says too specifically though.

Perhaps you should read the terror from the deep rules.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Before I destroy anything I'll want a rule that tells me specifically to destroy it. End of story. I would go with what a TO says or I would be willing to completely screw the RaW and move my other models out of the way to make room fro the models being moved. I'm not destroying them unless it says too specifically though.

If you cannot move the model to a legal positiont he model is destroyed. IT IS in the rules.

Demogerg wrote:not to sound like a jerk, but have you actually read the rule?

you only move the models that are touched by the large blast marker,

Likewise, don't mean to sound a jerk, but have you actually read the rule (or paid attention to any of the previous posts?).

And I quote;

Tyranid Codex 5th, Mawloc Entry P51 wrote:If any unit has surviving models under the template, move that unit by the minimum distance necessary to clear all models from beneath the template whilst maintaining squad coherency ..

So, this means that you are in fact allowed to move the entire unit. Not just the models covered under the template. I assume you are allowed to do it if it means keeping the squad in coherency and/or avoiding impassable terrain.

Please read the rules REALLY carefully before trying to correct someone else. I have just spent a good 5 mins reading, word-for-word, that lil bit of the rule. Just to be sure. I am.

The problem with the avoid impassable terrain is that you have to go around it. You cannot magically fly over it. And if that is impossible you have nowhere to go and hence are dead.

Nobody is arguing the move the entire unit, simply moving units that are not touched by the template, or moving guys over units.

I am supporting my friends conversion idea in which he would model his Mawloc to look like a snake that was digesting an animal, except in this case the Mawloc will have an enormous bulge in the shape of a landraider in its belly. That would be cool.

I am starting to dislike what in my opinion seems to be a trend in some pretty loosely worded or poorly thought out special rules in these new codices.

Its always been that way though. Remember lash or eldrad in 4th edition?

Although they dont seem to have any quality control anymore.

Naw, GW have actually really improved with the Nid codex (though compared to the likes of the SW codex, a Bowl of Noodles would be an Improvement).

What annoys me is GWs oh so unsubtle "BUY NEW SHINEY MODELS!" approach to writing rules. i.e. Carnifex which nid players had 6 of now such, but Tervigons and other new models are OMFG WTF HAXX EPIC!

Razerous wrote:

Demogerg wrote:not to sound like a jerk, but have you actually read the rule?

you only move the models that are touched by the large blast marker,

Likewise, don't mean to sound a jerk, but have you actually read the rule (or paid attention to any of the previous posts?).

And I quote;

Tyranid Codex 5th, Mawloc Entry P51 wrote:If any unit has surviving models under the template, move that unit by the minimum distance necessary to clear all models from beneath the template whilst maintaining squad coherency ..

So, this means that you are in fact allowed to move the entire unit. Not just the models covered under the template. I assume you are allowed to do it if it means keeping the squad in coherency and/or avoiding impassable terrain.

Please read the rules REALLY carefully before trying to correct someone else. I have just spent a good 5 mins reading, word-for-word, that lil bit of the rule. Just to be sure. I am.

Right, you can move the entire unit, IF the unit is hit with the template, in my examples they are not, the above poster was refering to moving the surrounding unit out of the way for a unit that was hit by the template.

So Im guessing there is a RAW consensus but Ill aske it here in this thread. Are you placing the model then scattering, thus not allowing it to come up under units unless random? I understand the "intent" and I usually will let it slide but this rule is written very poorly.

Seems like the rule is written as:

1. Place model. (cant place models on top of models)
2. Scatter
3. Resolve wounds.

Deep Striking RaW states the player must place the model on the table before rolling the dice, not hold the model over my models, not put the template over my models... Yes my opponent wants to wipe out my entire squad of firewarriors but he/she'll have to work for it.

Edit:
Here's a funny thought that just occured to me; would a seismic hammer kill a mawloc?

Thats the way I see it as well.

Explain the seismic hammer questions?

agnosto wrote:Deep Striking RaW states the player must place the model on the table before rolling the dice, not hold the model over my models, not put the template over my models... Yes my opponent wants to wipe out my entire squad of firewarriors but he/she'll have to work for it.

I was under the impression that models in a deep striking unit had not moved until after the deep strike was done, not before. If this is so then I can hover him over your guys until the scatter is rolled, as he has not deep struck yet.

Second is this bit. "if the mawloc deep strikes onto a point occupied by another model, do not roll on the strike mishap table but instead do the following......" So if he does count as moving/deep striking during the initial placing then I dont need to bring him out, just my template which can legally fit wherever it needs to be.

How can you hover, when you are told you must *place* the model?

For the love of god, please do not start this again.

Anyone with half a brain knows what the intended purpose of the Mawloc is. Those that argue it are people who either

-Know the intention, but RAW is RAW and they will not play RAI until GW makes an official errata. This is known as "stubborn" in most circles, "obstinate" in others and "prickish" in most.

-Fail to acknowledge the intention, and argue RAW for why it will not work.

Of course neither of these positions acknowledges the fact that RAW itself is very unclear, and you can't make a simple judgment based on Page 95 vs. Page 13 of the BRB, since the rules contradict each other. Is the general rule applicable to the special deep-striking rules, or vice versa?

The best we can do is lock this topic, and sticky a topic that basically says "Here is where we are with this argument, please stop clogging our intellects with this garbage argument."

As far as the original question, I do think the rules are VERY clear on this. If the unit is touched by the large blast template, move it out of the way. If it has nowhere to go, it is destroyed. I find it very similar to surrounding an enemy tank before wrecking it, causing the unit inside to have nowhere to go and subsequently destroying the unit.