Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It depends on how the HT ability stacks. Some say it does so you have a 2+ reserves roll in turn two, in which case it's fairly viable. If not, it's a little less reliable.

And Nurglitch, I'm not talking about the pods came down last turn and you ignored them, but I don't think that's what the OP was talking about either.

It's rolling for your reserves in this order:

spore 1

spore 2

spore 3 (if needed)

spore 4 (If needed)

mawloc (or conversely, you had it burrow in turn 1)

this creates a barrier around the vehicle and then the Mawloc forces the auto-destroy, all in the same turn.

As to spore scatter, given the size of most transports and how far you have to move them to be out from under the large blast marker, you'll need some pretty significant scatter.

Your main hope is going to be the scatter of the Mawloc.

And if the moved vehicle touches a pod/enemy unit it caused a tank shock to occur, or allowed the touched unit to make an attack on the vehicle, that would be a much better rule than the way it works now.

Demogerg:

I agree, to fall for this you would have to be an idiot, like that moron that held his entire White Scars in reserve and automatically lost when his opponent cordoned off all the entry points with Kroot.

But if you're not going to be an idiot, then you need to think of the consequences of avoiding this situation: you can't just form up a parking lot because a Mawloc coming up underneath it isn't going to miss a tank, and you're not going to have room to move the ones in the middle out of the way.

Like you said, you'd have to be an idiot to fall for this, but you have to play smarter when you avoid this too. You can't just park your motor-pool in a corner of the board and rely on that to blast the Tyranids apart after they compliantly march into your guns.

Would this change my deployment? Sure, when I look at my opponent's army list, I see this 1 trick pony, chuckle, and prepare to maybe lose one thing as my opponent gimps themselves to pull it off.

Iron_Chaos_Brute:

How would a Tyranid player "gimp" themselves pulling off what Kroot Loops describes?

sourclams wrote:Egregious leap to conclusions FTW. This isn't a viable tactic for clearing a parking lot. The OP admits to as much.

Funny gimmick scenario that gibbed a point-sink unit.

True that, but the lesson behind it is if playing a swarming army, completely surrounding a transport can yield some surprising results. I remember my (chaos) lord being the only one left when a bunch of nid's surrounded his ride and wrecked it, leaving space for 1 model to do an emergancy disembark.

Oh, and pointsink units are not a good idea when things like this can and happen

Nurglitch wrote:Iron_Chaos_Brute:

How would a Tyranid player "gimp" themselves pulling off what Kroot Loops describes?

They spend at least 260 points (+ units to go inside the spores) to drop right in the face of an opponent's army. Now let's presume that the nid player isn't a complete idiot and spods 6 Zoans and the Doom of Malan'tai. We're up to 750 points just to support this gimmick.

Now how long is that 750 points going to survive the ensuing massive multicharge? Not much in there has much capability in HtH, so it's all neutralised and killed off over the next little while. Will it do a fair bit of damage? Yeah. Is it enough to cripple an opponent in one horrific turn if they don't put all their eggs in one basket? No.

It's looks like an okay tactic but I think most smart opponents will see it coming and take the correct steps to counter it.

G

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:Iron_Chaos_Brute:

How would a Tyranid player "gimp" themselves pulling off what Kroot Loops describes?

They spend at least 260 points (+ units to go inside the spores) to drop right in the face of an opponent's army. Now let's presume that the nid player isn't a complete idiot and spods 6 Zoans and the Doom of Malan'tai. We're up to 750 points just to support this gimmick.

Now how long is that 750 points going to survive the ensuing massive multicharge? Not much in there has much capability in HtH, so it's all neutralised and killed off over the next little while. Will it do a fair bit of damage? Yeah. Is it enough to cripple an opponent in one horrific turn if they don't put all their eggs in one basket? No.

You have it right Iron_Chaos_Brute, I think Nurglitch likes gamey shenanigans like this or is playing devils advocate on purpose.

We are talking about 500+ points in MCs for + 2 reserves, 250 at least 250 points in mawlocs and and at least 4 pods all coordinating for perfect hits for autodestruction of a single unit in a transport in a pretty poorly defined, gamey technical kill?

Sure 1000 points in drop striking bugs ought to kill a full transport with a 2 turn multipart tactic.

Great tactic...

Here's an idea, bring the units down and just play the game normally.

Again you miss the point. I want to0 pod down in front of those transports regardless. Why? Because my list has a flying phalanx and i want to get to grips with your transports aas fast and easily as possible. So my podded units take out some transports and my HT, Parasite and Gargs attack what comes out and my Doom does even more damage. I might or might not try the Mawloc trick in SUPPORT of my main strategy.

You see my strategy is always to box you in so my assault squads can get at you. I'm not spending 1000 points to pull; of a one trick pony at all. I'm spending a 1000 points as on main attack force - Terv outflanking, pods dropping and flyers getting close by turn two. I would relish an ensuing multicharge as I do not use Zoans in pods at all. You will be charged first by Toxic Gargs, you will shot to bits by devilgaunts and my HT and Parasite, and Carni will be glad to join the melee. Does this always work? No. Nothing is foolproof. But you better believe that I would love to eliminate the deathstar Raider before the mayhem ensues since that is your main assault unit.

And if I have an army that you can't just reach down and pluck the effectiveness out of? What then?

Iron_Chaos_Brute is right. If you end up facing a well rounded balanced allcomers list you are just asking for punishment.

I think deepstriking into their deployment zone is good, but you may need to disperse your units to make sure all your winged stuff isn't hit by a demolisher/battlecannon the turn after they arrive.

I also use a primarily deepstriking list but my purpose isn't to box them in. It's to take them out before they retaliate. Doom is great for this as are zoanthropes. hive tyrants and trygons can catch what tries to run away. And although I don't use them warriors with deathpitters are pretty good transport openers.

My winged troops are not DSing or outflanking and my tactics will vary depending on my opponent. Let's talk with a bit of realism here. I use Doom but not Zoans. I find them a bit unreliable and prefer Carnifexes, btw. Trygons are not the be all end all either. I much prefer my winged HT. Half my list will DS and outflank, the other half flies starting on the table (well the Mawloc hides until I use him). I look to glance /immobilize if I cannot pen. Works out pretty well. I said the Mawloc was SUPPORT. He is after all just one unit. I'll decide how best to employ him depending on what I'm facing. The box tactic works quite well. I'm set up for it. I strike in force turn two and three. I don't want a bunch of footsloggers - i.e., Hive Tyrants, gaunts on foot, etc. Only my Terv walks on the table and he outflanks. It would be nice to take out an opponent before retaliation but that is a little optimistic with any list. Too many lists have counters for that tactic. It's better to have the force and build necessary to rebuff a retaliation and come out on top.

I actually think we are on the same page but we express it differently. I'm not disagreeing with you or Iron_Chaos_Brute. I'm saying you misunderstand my tactics.

a Tyranid army charged my 10th company.

I killed 2 Trygons with Lascannon Fire and melta fire...


That will kill them lol.
And he killed 2 rhinos half of Lucius's Squad and half of Logar's Squad.


but then Loken Brust into action slaughtering 20-30 Genestalars single handly.

needless to say the tyranids did not expect to find an entire army of plasma cannons turn towards them. They were annihalted before they could get to the objective XD.

This was in a Planet Strike Game

But somehow they still won the game. The Tyranids wiped out 2 compaines of space marines (not mine The Chapters Were Black Templars and DYI Chapter Called The Repentors) and slaughtered an imperial guard platton and a small contigent of Dark Angels. My area had no units left. Just my space marines having jelly beans and Tea.

But still it was a game
it ended with a
3-2 The Tyranids had won but i shall have my avenge! I SHALL!


I shall write this down into a book series as it seems that i keep facing this player and his nids, as well as the chaos players and Orc players.

Asherian Command wrote:a Tyranid army charged my 10th company.

I killed 2 Trygons with Lascannon Fire and melta fire...


That will kill them lol.
And he killed 2 rhinos half of Lucius's Squad and half of Logar's Squad.


but then Loken Brust into action slaughtering 20-30 Genestalars single handly.

needless to say the tyranids did not expect to find an entire army of plasma cannons turn towards them. They were annihalted before they could get to the objective XD.

This was in a Planet Strike Game

But somehow they still won the game. The Tyranids wiped out 2 compaines of space marines (not mine The Chapters Were Black Templars and DYI Chapter Called The Repentors) and slaughtered an imperial guard platton and a small contigent of Dark Angels. My area had no units left. Just my space marines having jelly beans and Tea.

But still it was a game
it ended with a
3-2 The Tyranids had won but i shall have my avenge! I SHALL!


I shall write this down into a book series as it seems that i keep facing this player and his nids, as well as the chaos players and Orc players.

What?

Seems like a good idea to box up your opponent's dedicated transport with your zoanthrope in pods whether using mawloc or not. If you get a wreck from shooting alone, that kills everything inside too.

Mawloc being a one trick pony, there are still many different uses:

Keep it alive at the back. Burrow it on turn 4 and deep strike in to contest objective on turn 5 seems useful. If they shoot at it during the first 3 or 4 turns, a 170 points fire magnet soaking some wounds from your other threats; seems like a good deal. Also, it seems like a waste of 170 points for most of the game, maybe it can act as a psychological strategy cause they don't know when you are going to burrow it. That turn 5 contest won me the game, then I think it's a 170 point well spent.

How about multi-assault? Have a durable cheap unit (maybe ripper) multi-assault your opponent's units so they can pull as much models close together as possible, and then have the Mawloc come up eating everything, friend and/or foe. Strength 6 AP 2 hit will kill a lot of things without a reliable invulnerable save. Some people seem to liking the idea multi-assaulting tyranid after they arrived at turn 2, maybe we can burrow the Mawloc on turn 2 and eat them on turn 3 while they pile into the left-over.

I pulled these off before. It's amusing. Yermom's list didn't even have a Mawloc in it to start with. Replacing a trygon with mawloc changed a little strategic mentality. We are not pulling 1000+ points into the list just for the "Mawloc in the Box" trick.

All these are just food for thought. We'll know what to do when that golden opportunity arrive and you have a Mawloc on your side. Let's all pray to the scatter dice god for a hit.

My list uses the Parasite of Mortex and I never thought of the ripper trick. Might have to think about that. I never said the Mawl;oc was a one trick pony, BTW. It has uses outside of goping after transports and tanks ( where it is the most difficult to use ).

Like the Deathleaper, the Mawloc is more than capable of contesting an objective late game or simply destroying troops sitting on an objective. It can go after LFs and Devastators. It can force your opponent to hange his deployment and game tactics. It can have a psychological effect for sure. Going after a deathstar is not the reason I take a Mawloc. But the extra MC is very useful.

Keep in mind that you can drop spore pods empty... people hate it when their assumptions about your deployment are invalidated.

No you can't. Spods are bought as upgrades for the unit and thus can't be deployed without the unit they are purchased for.

Of course you can deploy it empty. You cxan deploy drop pods empty can't you? It's a dedicated ' transport spore'. However, I'm not likely to let my units footslog across the table to get shot up. It will work with hybrid lists that have both fast and slow elements though. It becomes a rather wexpensive piece of terrain and gun platform, imho. Not a tactic I would use.

The big question here is whether the Mawloc can deploy under the LR. If it can, then this tactic can work. If it can't, and you are praying for it to DS in the appropriate direction, it's too unreliable. ("figure that with 33% chance of hit, which is a fail, you've got about 50% of the scatter that's good, if you are right up against the appropriate side of the vehicle, so you've got about a 1/3 chance of getting this to work, not enough to gamble a Mawloc + 4 Spods, particularly in a KP mission)

That said, I totally don't get the attitude from some folks that there's a way to "fall" for this. You have a Landraider with expensive cargo. That's a good unit, they are in something like 50% of SM lists. It's not in reserve. Once again, nothing terribly scrubby here, you want your big hammer unit on the board, particularly vs. Nids. Then bugs fall all around it and it gets Mawloc'd. I guess you can make the argument that you should have had a Mystic unit nearby to let you shoot some s8 at the pods, but that strikes me as internet toughguy syndrome at its worse.

I suppose you could incorporate 3 units of 3 Lictors as the surrounding units. They don't scatter and could fit in around the LR in spots that the Spore Pods missed. Just the threat of this could have ramifications on your opponent.

willydstyle wrote:Following the rules is never an "exploit."

Actually, the very definition of an exploit is following the rules. Not following the rules is cheating.

Lictors are more effective than multiple pods to make sure you do the job and are less of a KP sink, but if your lictors can't reach cover with their run move, they are screwed.

The point of this tactic isn't a 1000pt way of popping a land raider, it's a way of negating the fear of actually using a drop pod army against an opponent with a powerful countercharge unit sitting in wait in a land raider or something similar. It's pretty much impossible to pop a LR and kill its crew before they get to charge you if you drop pod inside of it to the point where it isn't isn't considered, mawlocks can make it happen.

if you're enemy has a big point sink unit like this and you can "break the back" of his army, go for it, just don't forget to bring a pod of venomthropes to make sure you survive the next turn.

New Player wrote:That guy packed up and left.

Lol it makes me laugh that some people still take the game so seriously, i mean its great to win and all. But the fun is in playing. Not just winning

Now let's presume that the nid player isn't a complete idiot and spods 6 Zoans and the Doom of Malan'tai.

No offence, but thats a big ass waste of points and complete stupidity, rather than being a good thing.
answer me this: Why the feth would you use these for the tactic mentioned? wouldnt you just go to town with thier lance powers?

Use cheap and useless units to trap.
Why use the best tank hunters in the game, to block a tank rather than pop it?

Phish Skills wrote:

New Player wrote:That guy packed up and left.

Lol it makes me laugh that some people still take the game so seriously, i mean its great to win and all. But the fun is in playing. Not just winning

I get to play against that guy again today. Turn out he's a pretty nice guy. Little did I known, he had a bad day previously because he was recently fire from work, and turn out some HQ named Vulkan was also in the land raider (Vulkan is a beast!!!). Seeing how 650+ points worth of units got instantly wiped-out. I felt bad about it. Anyway, since he saw what the Mawloc can do previously, he reserved everything, and we had a much more enjoyable back and forth action game.

To 40kenthusiast: Mawloc can deep strike on top of it. I figure as much for that 33% chance to instant wipe them off the table. If the Mawloc scattered, then I have no choice but shooting the land raider with zoanthropes.

To JD21290: I saw this Eldar player using his jetbikes to surround a Ork tank, and then he wrecked the tank with singing spear and instantly killed all those orks inside. I was stunned. I didn't even know about that rule. So monkey see monkey do, base on what Yermom have on his list. I'm not a good list writer. Maybe just me, I have no luck getting a wreck with zoanthrope. It always end up with vehicle explodes, which allows all those termies inside survive.

New Player wrote:

Phish Skills wrote:

New Player wrote:That guy packed up and left.

Lol it makes me laugh that some people still take the game so seriously, i mean its great to win and all. But the fun is in playing. Not just winning

I get to play against that guy again today. Turn out he's a pretty nice guy. Little did I known, he had a bad day previously because he was recently fire from work, and turn out some HQ named Vulkan was also in the land raider (Vulkan is a beast!!!). Seeing how 650+ points worth of units got instantly wiped-out. I felt bad about it. Anyway, since he saw what the Mawloc can do previously, he reserved everything, and we had a much more enjoyable back and forth action game.

To 40kenthusiast: Mawloc can deep strike on top of it. I figure as much for that 33% chance to instant wipe them off the table. If the Mawloc scattered, then I have no choice but shooting the land raider with zoanthropes.

To JD21290: I saw this Eldar player using his jetbikes to surround a Ork tank, and then he wrecked the tank with singing spear and instantly killed all those orks inside. I was stunned. I didn't even know about that rule. So monkey see monkey do, base on what Yermom have on his list. I'm not a good list writer. Maybe just me, I have no luck getting a wreck with zoanthrope. It always end up with vehicle explodes, which allows all those termies inside survive.

I really enjoy your approach to seeing a powerful new tactic. Instead of saying "OMG that's so cheesy" you say "that's awesome, now I want to try it!" I wish more players had attitudes likeyours

Plus, for all those people saying "LOL Thats so cheep itd never happen IRL", it makes perfect sense actually. Think about it; the big tank is driving happily across the ground, then suddenly pods hammer down around it, it can't move, and then an ENORMOUS SPIKY CREATURE pop out of the ground right beneath it, flips it over, tears it open and eats the chewy center. It's like a scene right out of Starship Troopers!

Really, my vision is a Mawloc could never eat a landraider, I don't think it's cinematic at all.

So how exactly do digging insects precisely coordiante with insect seeds plummeting through the air to exactly surround a moving tank? All at the same time...

I think it's ridiculous and gamey, and fairly silly and implausible, but to each his own.

Firstly, how a Mawloc eats a Land Raider.

The digging Tyranids precisely co-ordinates with the Mycetic Spores because they are all part of a vast and effective psychic network capable of enabling communicating between its nodes faster than the speed of light.

Yeah, Tyranids are freakin' psychic, how about that?