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New Player wrote: Maybe you can sugar coated to offer that player full sportsmanship as a trade.

Don't you just love the fairness inherent in soft scores...

I've done this extensively, never had an issue with it. I convert my big shootas a little (bayonets, targeting scopes, strapped on extra gun, additional ammo/magazines, etc.) to make them look shootier. I've also made "deffguns" from spare shootas by strapping two together, lengthening the barrel, etc. They're LOOTED WEAPONS, they shouldn't look uniform, IMO. They don't mix with shoota boyz or anyone else who carries a big shoota and they don't ever take meks, so the confusion aspect shouldn't be nonexistant. Further, they are painted in unit colors, so you can't even mix up different units of lootas with each other.

Every ork player has some conversions; it should be par for the course. I would say just make sure they aren't stock big shootas (throw some flash on them), you should be good to go.

Green Blow Fly wrote:All that matters is what the TO says. Creating a thread to upsurp them is uncool.

G

Pardon me here, but there is something important that you may be missing. It does not appear that anyone is usurping the TOs. 1) A forum thread vs. a TO loses 2.) Different tournaments run differently and have different TOs who often have different opinions. I see a player trying to make a box of Lootas, that should have 5 Deffguns and only has four work. Lets find a way to help him out.

WYSIWIG is very important in casual and tournament play. It less up to memory and more to observing the battlefield for what it is. However, if he models the piece correctly and it is clearly not just a Big Shoota, I don't know too many TOs that would throw a flag. For that matter, I don't know too many players that would have a problem either. I understand that people try to abuse the rules and that is unfair to the rest of us. I also understand that the people who are best at calling out rule abusers are usually abusers themselves.

@Dashofpepper: Just make it look really cool! There are four burnas and a big shoota in that box. I am pretty sure that if you combined at least two of them with your Big Shoota to make a Kustom Deffgun, added some wires, fueltanks, a snotling with his ears plugged standing on the dudes shoulder, etc., that you would be well within your rights. The size would be accurate, it clearly is not another weapon in the squad or the army or your opponents army [ wouldn't him to get confued on that ]

Every ork player has some conversions; it should be par for the course. I would say just make sure they aren't stock big shootas (throw some flash on them), you should be good to go.

QFT. Just make them big and shooty for most of the models. Most big shooters will take minimal work to make them look better.

I throw on some extra gubbinz, even if it's simply another shoota nailed onto the big shoota.

Big shootas are a specific entry in the Codex. And, while it really isn't confusing since they're all part of one unit, I wouldn't consider it strictly WYSIWIG either. It's a proxy. So, I would throw some extra gubbinz, gunz, etc. onto the big shoota to make them stand out compared to a 'base' big shoota. Especially since the unit can normally have up to 3 big shootas on the meks.

Also, I'd consider picking up an IG heavy weapon set, and throwing some of the heavy weapons into the unit (either nailed onto a big shoota, or in-place of it, or maybe even servitor-like and just in-place of an arm or two).

dietrich wrote:I throw on some extra gubbinz, even if it's simply another shoota nailed onto the big shoota.

Big shootas are a specific entry in the Codex. And, while it really isn't confusing since they're all part of one unit, I wouldn't consider it strictly WYSIWIG either. It's a proxy. So, I would throw some extra gubbinz, gunz, etc. onto the big shoota to make them stand out compared to a 'base' big shoota. Especially since the unit can normally have up to 3 big shootas on the meks.

Also, I'd consider picking up an IG heavy weapon set, and throwing some of the heavy weapons into the unit (either nailed onto a big shoota, or in-place of it, or maybe even servitor-like and just in-place of an arm or two).

exactly

Green Blow Fly wrote:All that matters is what the TO says. Creating a thread to upsurp them is uncool.

G

GBF:

Not trying to bypass any rules anywhere, relax. I think Mike knows the discussions I've had with him make it pretty clear I'm not trying to usurp anything.

As mentioned Dash, just hop up the big shootas. That way just glancing at them, anyone would know they are something special, and probably NOT a big shoota.

I too would have no problems with your idea what so ever. Youve got to use those big shootas somehow anyways right

Is the reason you've got a bunch of non-deffgun armed big shootas because

(a) you wanted some cool conversions or
(b) you're cheap

If you can convince people it is the first option then you should be ok. If it looks like it is really just the second option, then folks are going to think you should get the right models or write a different list.

jshbchnn wrote:Is the reason you've got a bunch of non-deffgun armed big shootas because

(a) you wanted some cool conversions or
(b) you're cheap

If you can convince people it is the first option then you should be ok. If it looks like it is really just the second option, then folks are going to think you should get the right models or write a different list.

Oh no, quick, I'd better rush out and buy 360$ worth of loota boxes so I can field a full loadout without modeling snobs thinking I'm cheap!

There's no problem with being cheap, especially with the asinine 4 deffguns per 30$ box setup for lootas. If you don't want to play me because you don't like my mildly converted counts-as models that are obviously lootas and saved me 300$... then I'd rather not play you either.

Cheap or creative, don't really care as long as I know what they are. Maybe you'll lose comp or painting points, oh no. For me, WYSIWYG is much more important on differentiated models within groups and/or ICs to represent wargear and special weapons. If it's a LOOTA SQUAD, then I know what the hell they have and I only need to know if any (and which) might be meks (which is usually zero unless they are in a battlewagon).

I use the old orks, those made of metal with a shoota similar to bizarre small spaceship as Lootas and i dont have problems with my friendly or championships games.

Call me a snob, but in the codex it actually describes deffguns as shoulder mounted.

I probably wouldn't raise hell about it, but I'd probably think you were taking advantage of the loose conversion rules around orks to be lazy and cheap. It's okay to be one or the other, but to be both is not very cool.

On the other hand, find a way to shoulder mount them, and I'd have no problem at all.

Again, just my opinion.

P.S. What the hell were they thinking when they made that box set?

jshbchnn wrote:
(b) you're cheap

There is no way to be cheap and play GW games. You can maybe try to limit your spending a bit, but you cannot be cheap. Not at all.

Put sprue bits on them with PVA glue. That way they can come off after the tournament so you don't need to worry about permanently ugly guns.

Nightwatch wrote:Put sprue bits on them with PVA glue. That way they can come off after the tournament so you don't need to worry about permanently ugly guns.

I certainly hope you are only attempting to troll. That was certainly todays worst tip.

I had been pondering sticky tack, but the color shows.


As for being cheap....*laughing* I've been playing Warhammer 40k since July 2008. I have 7,000 points worth of Tau, 10,000 points worth of Orks, and 3,000 points worth of Dark Eldar.

My style of playing orks has shifted dramatically in the last month because of my sudden access to on-demand gaming against anyone in the world (Thanks Vassal!) which has let me overcome big fish, small pond syndrome. I went from having 0 Lootas to suddenly having 30 of them, with a GT now 5 days away and originally about two weeks to get two deffkoptas painted and converted, a squad of gretchin painted, and 30 Lootas painted.

I don't have *time* to go get more Lootas even if I wanted to; my wife and I are frantically trying to get what we have done in time.

Conversions and kit bashes are cool BUT just sticking a big shoota or a rokkit launcher or a mek mega blaster on a fig is not a kit bash or a conversion, its the same gun from the same army you're playing on the table.

Putting a las cannon or a plasma cannon from a marine box on an ork would be a different story - same amount of effort but in no way confusing or annoying. In a tournament calling a dude with a big shoota anything other than a dude with a big shoota is liable to rub someone the wrong way.

I agree with jshbchnn, Droofus, and BloodAngel.

There is a difference between putting efforrt to give a creative conversion and being cheap/lazy. The latter just spoils the spirit of the game.

Proxying Big Shootas (or painting them different colors) as DeffGuns is definitely no effort at all. Time constrain is not an excuse.

I ve seen people mount lascannons on ork boys. That to me is effort and is thus acceptable.