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Gornall wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:You haven't taken into account the Nobs(unless they have Claws) will go first and will kill a few termies

I thought they were all Meganobs.

We were discussing Nobs and bikers Nobs. the ones where you can abuse the rule book to the point Protective Services has be called in to protect it.

Da Boss wrote:

Gornall wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:You haven't taken into account the Nobs(unless they have Claws) will go first and will kill a few termies

I thought they were all Meganobs.

Meganobs aren't a great deathstar because they're slow, don't have a bosspole, and can't really diversify properly to abuse wound allocation.

They are not slow in a battlewagon...

Grotsnik makes them fearless, feel no pain, and lets you buy 5++ saves...
Ghazghkull gives you a 6" run, and 7 S10 attacks attached to a T5 W4 2++ save that is an eternal warrior...

for about 745 points you can field this Ork Deathstar... 115 points for a vehicle with 14/12/10, fast, open topped, allows you to deliver 7S10 attacks without leaving, repair immobilized on a 4+ and can hold still a nearby vehicle on a 4+... so... about 860 points or 43% of your 2000 point army...

"Not all armies can field deathstars, such Necrons. A true deathstar can absorb lots of punishment and still win a game, it's not about getting back the points you invested in your über unit. I play a deathstar in my Khorne daemon army and I have had games where they never even assaulted one enemy unit but still helped me to win the game. While a large squad of nob bikers lead by a mounted warboss is expensive pointswise it's not the case that every deathstar has to cost a lot of points. Deathstars can remove your opponent's focus on your troops and protect them so as a result you might be able to get away with fielding less troops which means you have more points to spend on your deathstar(s)."

100% agree with you on this one. A death star neither has to be super expensive (500+ points) nor incredibly hurty all it has to do is force your opponent to concentrate on them with a disproportionate amount of force therby enabling the rest of your army to achieve its objectives. In WHFB its a completely different story, but in I think GBF has it right in regards to 40k.

I think its about stacking. That's what I call it anyways, when you pile up one special rule on another on another and before long you have something rerolling everything, not dying, and mobbing around like they own the place. Nob bikers are absolutely ridiculous, as are SMurf special guys, Warlock bikers, and all sorts of command squads who have special leaders from two different armies in the SMurf codex. The problem is like rock-paper-scissors, if he brings a rock every time you eventually just get some paper. They hit hard, they are damn near impossible to kill, but they take up half an army list. Troops numbers will trump them.

KingCracker wrote:This is also when a good roll with a large Flash gitz mob comes in handy. a bunch of AP1 or 2 shots into a super unit will make them fall like flies(or maybe Im just trying to convince myself that Gitz really are as awesome as I think they are lol)

To you, I direct the first half of that article.

Its gonna come back to bite them when they see S7 or 8 weapons at AP2 or 3...

i play chaos, so i counter them by tossing a my vindicators pie plate at them and locking them down with many many choas deamons. They get summoned in by a group near the super unit and then they charge that round or the round after. Never had a squad of 10 knocked out in 1 round. so i then take a couple more squands and kinda sandwhich them todeath.

I think the deathstar units are being replaced with str 8+ shooting spam.

Paying 500+ points for a nob squad against armies that can shoot 15+ strength 8+ weapons at them isn't a great investment.

The trick is not every army can do this. Orks most obvious unit has a huge handicap in the glory hog rule, Tau can only have a max of 9 of the rightly feared railguns, and all their other str 8+ weapons come with either a cripplingly short range or it's 10 point one shot wonders.

To me that's one of the most game changing things in the 5e codeices, one vendetta squadron packs as many lascannons as the entire Tau army can take Railguns.

Railguns>Lascannons by far though. Those are nine railguns, but what they hit, they destroy.

Two deathstars i hate are
1.All of the eldar pheonix lords with a avatar (<- hurts like hell)
2.Two maxed out Necron warrior squads with a lord with resse orb with them. (WBB makes them hard to keep down)

Pika_power wrote:Railguns>Lascannons by far though. Those are nine railguns, but what they hit, they destroy.

Yes and no. Against vehicles, definitely. Against deathstar units, not so much. Both wound on 2's, both ignore any armor or FNP. The only place Railguns pull ahead is on the few units that have T5 and no eternal warrior.