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Captain Solon wrote:now then, second question:

If I've got metal models, and I can definatly say I'm a poor painter, let alone of metal.

If I want to re-cast metal models so they're plastic, is that illegal

Do you like it when you do home work and your random class mate copies it off you and hand it in to teacher to get the grades?
( granted they are using their own pencil and paper )

Ppl put effort and money into making the models , companies put money and time into building the franchise
why are you allowed to take that from them?

Reasons like well .... i dont have time to do my HW , or the HW was hard , or i dont like the teacher...
really wont cut it , unless you are lieing to yourself.

Look all your viewing this all wrong, he should delete the post, continue on his evil ways, and pray to the machine spirit your not caught right?

I think I see a van pulling around, I hope its not the fun police again.

You would never get caught for doing this, it in you own home in your own time if i were to do it i would think twice if it was legal or not :/

id just do it..

That is why it is between the user and their conscience.

He was asking for advice on legality, however, and it is illegal.

Silly mod, it's only illegal if you get caught!

hang on...

You're relating this to not ding homework?

wow...

I respect what people have done to make GW, but my real problem is that I'm a failure when it comes to metal models, and I don't see why remoddeling them with plastic would be a problem

You should read up about copyright and stuff.

Just pay someone else to build your metal models for you.

The Dreadnote wrote:I imagine green stuffing an entire sprue of tactical marines would be a little challenging...

Hence the point of modding a figure/part with green stuff and casting

If the hobby is expensive brand new then why not buy old, second hand figures off ebay, which could be had quite cheaply.
Since you have the capability to cast figures, it may be possible to mod parts and remodel them to suit your own style.
Unique, creative and legal.

...

Yes.

It doesn't matter if something is OOP. If it is still in copyright you are breaking the law by making copies.

Kilkrazy wrote:Yes.

Agreed.

Captain Solon wrote:hang on...

You're relating this to not ding homework?

wow...

I respect what people have done to make GW, but my real problem is that I'm a failure when it comes to metal models, and I don't see why remoddeling them with plastic would be a problem

Yes , i was trying to make it easier to understand by comparing it to something to relate to.

Captain Solon wrote:hang on...

You're relating this to not ding homework?

wow...

I respect what people have done to make GW, but my real problem is that I'm a failure when it comes to metal models, and I don't see why remoddeling them with plastic would be a problem

Just a heads up, but you're also going to be a failure when it comes to casting. Plastic casting doesn't work the way you seem to think it does. Anyways, it if you can't paint metal, you can't paint plastic either, so recasting to get around some sort of painting hanging up isn't going to achieve anything anyway.

Kilkrazy wrote:For the record, I am strongly against copyright violation, however I like to see legal terms used correctly.

Theft is a criminal offence. Copyright violation is a civil offence (except under provisions of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.) There is a difference in law.

Not precisely correct (I'm assuming we're talking about the US, given your invocation of the DMCA).

I've always fantasized about buying a forgeworld titan and then pouring molds of the pieces, and then showing up to a GT with a truckload of about a hundred Reavers, just to hear someone official say 'I think we would have remembered that guy.'

Ah the legalities of the illegalities!!


So, OP, have you crafted anything yet?
Would like to see what you've come up with (",)

Uncle Samm, I wanted to the same for so long too....

One of these days I'm bringing 10 warhounds and 7 reavers to the battelfield...
One of these days...

Janthkin wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:For the record, I am strongly against copyright violation, however I like to see legal terms used correctly.

Theft is a criminal offence. Copyright violation is a civil offence (except under provisions of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.) There is a difference in law.

Not precisely correct (I'm assuming we're talking about the US, given your invocation of the DMCA).

Naturally it varies somewhat in detail from country to country, and we have members from dozens of countries.

That's why the safe assumption is that it is illegal, and if you really want to operate inside the law you need to do some serious research into your local jurisdiction.

Like asking a question on Dakka.

The most I've seen someone do is cast up a little mold for just one particular bit. A buddy of mine needed just a couple more of a particular cloak and just made a small mold instead of waiting for a bit to ship. Worked out well.

What exactly are the US laws when it comes to 'personal use' for something like this? I always figured it would be okay so long as you bought the original and weren't selling the copies. Also, what was the percentage of a model that had to be made from GW parts in their tournaments?

What you say is what is true for media(DVDs, VHS tapes(remember those ) music) i don't know if it applies to plastic minis

Certaintly prosecution would be difficult and even harder to prove. there are people who green stuff minis from scratch. but that is their work and their work alone.


My previous post says it all

Do not do iiiiiillllleeeeeegggggaaaaaalllll

Q: What are the most dangerous and feared beasties in the GW universe?

A: Their Lawyers
AAAARRRRGGGGH!!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!

Grey Templar wrote: there are people who green stuff minis from scratch. but that is their work and their work alone.

Not quite. The way an IP works, GW can still get these people for copyright infringement by proving that they have copied a "look" that is part of the IP, such as a crafter making a model that to a 40k-gamer feels like it really belongs in a Tau army. One way to defend against such accusations is to "prove" that the work has been done without the crafter having ever seen the imagery that is supposedly stolen. This is of course extremely difficult for the accusated. However, as long as the modeller just makes up her own "look" for her models, it's not at all an issue for GW.

Mellon wrote:Not quite. The way an IP works, GW can still get these people for copyright infringement by proving that they have copied a "look" that is part of the IP, such as a crafter making a model that to a 40k-gamer feels like it really belongs in a Tau army.

The term you're looking for is called "Trade Dress" and is not found in may national/regional copyright laws. For example Washington State copyright law does not recognize trade dress while US copyright law does. As long as a mold maker in Washington Stated does not distribute his "creations" or molds outside the state, the federal law does not apply and a plaintiff attempting to pursue a trade dress claim will have no standing. The moment something crosses state lines though...

Mellon wrote:One way to defend against such accusations is to "prove" that the work has been done without the crafter having ever seen the imagery that is supposedly stolen.

Again, this depends on your country. In England the burden of proof is on the defendent. In America, the burden of proof is on the accuser. How you defend yourself depends on who has to prove what.

Of course all this is academic. The person with the copyright needs to be made aware of your infraction which is unlikely unles you start selling your work or bragging about your casting efforts (such as posting on a public forum).

Thank you for the clarifications Breotan. I was only aware about how things worked in sweden.

If you Re-cast models; primer and paint them how are they able to enforce any jurisdiction?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean can you even tell? there would be no evidence

IronfrontAlex wrote:If you Re-cast models; primer and paint them how are they able to enforce any jurisdiction?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean can you even tell? there would be no evidence

You cant , but that doesnt make things right.

I can have a meth lab in my basement making $50k a week ,
and its fine as long as no one knows.

Is this how people judge right from wrong now days? Aslong as you arnt caught?

IronfrontAlex wrote:If you Re-cast models; primer and paint them how are they able to enforce any jurisdiction?
I mean can you even tell? there would be no evidence

If you're recasting metal models in plastic, it's pretty obvious as soon as someone picks one up that something's not quite right...

If someone came to my shop with recast miniatures and I either knew or could tell, I wouldn't care. Actually, I would probably ask them how they did it and if I could try it out myself!

This subject does really interest me because, well, I don't understand how it could be understood as either stealing or copyright infringement. You already purchased their product, you are not selling your copies, so the only business they are losing is your's (and there is no law saying you HAVE to buy things). So no "stealing" is done. You are not trying to pass them off as your own original works, so there is no intellectual "thievery" there either.... would it be illegal for me to buy and Ikea table, then make an exact copy of it out of real materials?

Skinnattittar wrote: You already purchased their product, you are not selling your copies, so the only business they are losing is your's (and there is no law saying you HAVE to buy things). So no "stealing" is done.

It's not exactly stealing, because you'r not taking something that is physically theirs.

What it's doing is giving you more of something that they have created and that they base their business on selling without you actually purchasing them.

It's a somewhat ephemeral concept, but it's designed to allow companies that design and make things to be able to stay in business by selling what they create. If you are able to sidestep that process by just buying one and then duplicating it, the business's livelihood goes away.

It's simply a part of what makes the modern business world work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's another way of looking at this, though:

Forget GW for a moment. Lets say you're running a fledgling miniatures company. You produce your first miniature, (a basic trooper model) and sell it for $2 a pop.

Someone who wants an army of these comes along and buys a hundred of them. That's $200 of (well earned) cash straight to your company.

Someone else who wants an army of them buys one and makes a mould, casting up a hundred for themselves. They have essentially helped themselves to nearly $200 of your revenue.

It's not exactly stealing... but it's potentially just as effective at killing a company's income.

That is a clear cut case to me Insaniak
and if that person got caught and prosectured so be it.

But the inference by some posters is that, for example, i need an extra part of a figure, which i cast and use on a single custom job, then the full weight of GW will reek terrible retribution upon me.

well okay i exaggerate, but i didn't expect the Imperium Inquisition.

all together now...