Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Sounds like all luggage is in danger of being broken in an airline. All I've learned is that if I have anything valuable, its going in my carry on.

MagickalMemories wrote:I don't think it's fair to qualify Pipboy's comments as "hate," and it's quite rude to stop just short of calling him a liar about his stories.

FWIW, I think BF is a SPECTACULAR product. I do intend on getting a hold of a 1520 one day. I think Romeo has his thumb firmly in the heart of the market & KNOWS what players want and need in a case & trays. The truth is, though, that everything pb101 said about the case makes absolute sense. Luggage is made for the specific purpose of carrying your items safely in an airplane cargo hold. Battlefoam cases are made for the specific purpose of carrying your miniatures... with you... That's the difference.

A 400 pound man sitting on top of a 1520 once will not stress it nearly as much as having 50 pound HARD CASE luggage slammed into it repeatedly at a high rate of speed.

Again, this is NOT to call BF's quality into question. I think it's the best on the market. It's only meant to point out that even a product that good DOES have its' limitations.

Eric

I wouldn't characterize Pipboy as a hater, nor do I question his story. I have no basis for caparison. My comment was about the snobbery thing. If anything I am inclined to believe him. The Airlines barely treat passengers better than cattle, why should I expect better for my luggage. I doubt anything made to withstand the abuse an baggage handler can dish out would be affordable for any of us.

@Crimson Devil

Ah. Okay.
Then I misunderstood your post.

I'm glad for it, too. You've always seemed to be a bit more 'fair' than what I thought I was seeing.

@Romeo:

When are we going to get some better images of that ink peeking out from under those sleeves?

Eric

generalgrog wrote:I wouldn't call it hate. However I think there is resentment directed at the snobbery involved. Compare it to people that drive BMW's and think people that drive Fords are beneath them.

The opposite is also happening, however, with the people who have DIY solutions turning their noses up at those who buy Battlefoam, and taking it upon themselves to "educate" the community about said DIY options since obviously most people just don't know about them or they wouldn't have spent so much on BF bags and foam.

But I digress.

Why do Battlefoam threads always seem to get so hostile?

It seems like the most... mundane thing to get angry over.

I wouldn't call it hate. However I think there is resentment directed at the snobbery involved. Compare it to people that drive BMW's and think people that drive Fords are beneath them.

I think that's where the rumbling comes from.

Yeah, I don't get it, either. It's absolutely bizarre that Battlefoam haters get so angry over a mini case.

You think people are wasting their money? Who cares, they like the bag and it's their money.

You think battlefoam owners are snobs for buying a more expensive product? I've never heard a battlefoam person, online in real life, come down on non-battlefoam owners as if they were peasants or lesser people.

It's just such an over the top thing that it inevitably comes across as some sort of irrational envy or class hatred. It's just weird. I just don't see liking a great product as some sort of snobbery or class warfare. I sincerely doubt that 99% of Battlefoam owners actually look down on other people based on their mini cases, so it bugs me when posters state that they do. Battlefoam owners like their cases- they hold a ton of minis, are very strong compared to a lot of other bags, and Battlefoam can totally customize your stuff the way you want it. That's why they love them. I was reluctant to get one- it's expensive. I decided to try it, and I found it was the best gaming purchase I've made in years. It's functional.

All of the Battlefoam hating comes across as sour grapes or weird jealousy. And for the record, I don't think that if you own a BMW, it makes you a snob by default. I have a kick-ass car. It's fun. I love driving it, I love how it looks. I don't look down on the rest of humanity because they don't the drive same car. Heck, I had a lot of other cars before I ever owned this one.

The whole thing reminds me of a joke a friend once told me. The basic premise goes like this

City A: Man, City B sucks. They think they're so great. They think our town is not a real town, That we don't count. That their place is so great, nothing else counts.

City B: Oh Yeah, City A. I've was there once. Nice place.

City A is so convinced that City B always thinks about him, puts him down, and feels that he is superior. Meanwhile, City B isn't even aware that there is a problem, or that City A thinks this way.

There are non-Battlefoam owners that are so upset over pricing, or perceived value, or status, that they convince themselves that everyone else is thinking like the, or looking down on them. It's like the lyric "You're so vain, I bet you think this song is about you." Meanwhile, the Battlefoam owner is just happy to have a case that finally fits all of his orks without them breaking. If you can't afford the battlefoam, or really don't want it, why give those people that do such a hard time?

Honestly, he's not looking down on anyone, so for the haters, just get over it already. Please. It would be nice to read Battlefoam news threads without this crap from now on.

Wow.... way to totally miss the point there LLM.

No one said "You are a snob because you own BF or like BF" That is what your whole post is implying.

It's called a strawman argument. You are arguing against something that was neither said nor implied.

The snobbery comes from people calling homebrew bags as "something a 5 year old put together" or "Battlefoam, there really is no other choice"

Those are snobbery comments and thats what is resented.

....cue all the cool aid drinkers that will now proceed to take me out of context and/or build more strawman arguments.

GG

Guys seriously,

Can we stay on topic. This thread is about the BF bags taking a licking and still ticking. Please do not start another you said he said crap show. It's only going to get the thread closed again and I'll have to repost it from scratch.

GG, my friend. Why do you reply to these threads if everyone keeps jumping on your back and causing you grief. Just let it go and ignore the thread. Nobody here hates anyone but calling each other names is just childish.

I'm asking everyone to back down just a bit and talk about smart opinions that help the thread not hurt it.

Enough is enough. I don't take anyones comments personally and Battle Foam will keep on ticking regardless what forum chatter is out there. I just wish you guys would leave the hating aside and give me your honest opinion on the videos and product.

Simple stuff guys.

Thanks

Romeo
Battle Foam
Protecting Your Army

vonjankmon wrote:At that point I don't think it matters what you ship your stuff in and I'm not just talking models. Any luggage would break under those conditions.

Pelican cases I have never had an issue with. While I do not work in the same area as Pipboy, I did work for the MSP airport and saw quite a bit of crap happen to bags.

I did a similar thing with my pelican case and I am pretty confident that after 32 flights in the past three years that if it still hasnt been damaged it never will.

Cases are meant to protect fragile cargo, and if the case cannot do this job for unseen events such as falling crushing or whatever damage, then the case fails. Period. It is this reason why I use hard cases and not soft cases.

While I truly love the battlefoam trays themselves, I am skeptical of the actual protection offered by the battlefoam cases. Granted, for everyday trasportation to and from the LFGS they are more than sufficient, as I am sure this is the situation they will most commonly see and is intended for. But airline travel? Sorry folks, but throwing a bag into the street is not something that is analogous to what occurs during baggage handling.

If you want a case that will not only last but thrive in such adverse travel conditions, pelican cases are the only way to go. Hermetically sealed, you dont need to worry about pressure or moisture with these bags. The bags are so tough that they can be used as a very deadly weapon if need be and the delicate miniature cargo will still be safe if the packing material (battlefoam being top choice here) is good.

Of course pelican cases are not cheap either. But if your paying $300 already for battlefoam's biggest bag stuffed with custom foam, your no stranger to cost.

That said, I would happily use a battlefoam bag for local transportation and be confident of the contents safety.

Thank you Hellfury,

That is the type of information this thread needs. A smart educated bit of info left up to you the user to decide on. No pushing or talking bad about any person or product. Just straight forward information that people can use.

I thank you Hellfury for adding great information to this topic.

Romeo

These test videos are awesome. However, purely for comparative purposes, have any such tests been done to your competitor's bags? Competitors such as Sabol Designs ever-popular Army Transport line?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Why do Battlefoam threads always seem to get so hostile?

It seems like the most... mundane thing to get angry over.

Because this is Dakka and 2 out of 3 threads get hostile for no apparent reason becuase it's been consistently allowed for certain people to get away with it at the expense of others?

Make no mistake Romeo, that I am in fact quite critical of your cases. I beleive it is disingenuous of the maker of the video to claim that the product will be safe for non-carryon airline travel, as much as he may think his test proves otherwise. Especially when two people who work or have worked for the airline industry has commented to the obverse.

A closer approximation of typical airline stowage test would constitute being thrown down 6 flights of stairs and being hit by a linebacker several times against a wall. All of this after it has been in a freezer for 3 hours.

To translate the above, you would need much tumbling (minor damage issues) and then several major impacts of several hundred pounds of pressure (obvious major damage issue) all while the contents are more brittle due to freezing temperatures.

If the models can take that kind of abuse in a softcase because of the structural integrity of the foam Battle foam uses, then I would say that it could then be reasonably expected to survive airline cargo and baggage handling.

Sgt Diablo wrote:
GG, my friend. Why do you reply to these threads if everyone keeps jumping on your back and causing you grief.

I think that's very good advice, and I think I'll heed it.

GG

Hellfury,

I don't think you know the full details on a BF bag. They have a hard plastic inner shell. So we are not talking about items that are just canvas bags with nice foam inside. If you watch the videos you will clearly see that the bags are hard walled and not soft like Sabol or Reaper cases.

Also, lets keep in mind that the test we are talking about are extremes. But with that said even if something like your bag getting smashed by a football player or getting dumped down a 6 story office building is norm then I would think an insurance claim would be the next think you filed with that airline.

About 2 years ago I had my bag smashed and lost my computer because of it. My fault for putting it in my checked items but I had gifts and other fragile things as carry bags. Long story short after a long process with Southwest I got a full refund for my bag and my computer. The point is that you can get into a car accident going to the store with your bag and it gets smashed.

You can walk down the street and a train derails and takes you out and there goes your army. Maybe your little brother or sister or kids or wife decides the bags will make a great stool to get the cookies off the top shelf.

That's life and crazy things happen but the facts are the Battle Foam bags are the strongest in the business compared to other bags used for our hobby. It's really that simple. Do I think we make a bomb proof bunker for minis. No, of course not. Do I think we are the only bag makers in the world that can protect minis. Surely not.

We are just a good company looking to do right by our customers and providing them with the best we can make and still do it at a reasonable price.

Compared to Army Transports, we are way ahead of the curve when it comes to protection. Compared to GW hard case durability, quality and volume we blow them out of the water.

@FoxPhoenix135 - We would do that to help people see the difference but we don't want to make other companies look bad. It's just bad business and people know the difference. If someone would like to test the bags and put the Sabol stuff to a pitch and catch test like ours more power to ya.

Looking forward to seeing the video.

Romeo

@ Romeo

Something I'd suggest to you guys is to look at maybe setting up a distributorship with SKB for their Mil-spec cases (http://www.skbcases.com/industrial/products/prod-list.php?d=s17). These cases with your custom cut foam trays would be the be-all-end-all of minicases. I currently use them for my minis, but I really hate punching out the foam to fit, not to mention the density of the foam doesn't quite feel right, but as far as the case shell and features themselves, they are incredible. While your standard cases are great for the average gamer, I think having a hardshell case option along those lines would be a nice addition for those who really want to ensure that their minis are going to survive anything short of a plane crash or bomb blast

generalgrog wrote:Wow.... way to totally miss the point there LLM.

No one said "You are a snob because you own BF or like BF" That is what your whole post is implying.

It's called a strawman argument. You are arguing against something that was neither said nor implied.

The snobbery comes from people calling homebrew bags as "something a 5 year old put together" or "Battlefoam, there really is no other choice"

Those are snobbery comments and thats what is resented.

....cue all the cool aid drinkers that will now proceed to take me out of context and/or build more strawman arguments.

GG

Seriously General Grog, what's your problem? I don't get it.

I didn't miss any point, nor was I making a strawman argument. There's a lot of ridiculous hostility being vented on Battlefoam threads, which I was commenting on. I think it's unnecessary and unwarranted. And from my point of view, a lot of the griping comes across as some sort of perverse class oriented argument against the bags. There are plenty of comments in these threads that express that type of viewpoint.

The fact that you even went off on me is a great example of the type of behaviour I'm talking about. Frankly, I feel that the overall level of discourse on Dakka Dakka has become so corrosive, so ignorant, and overly aggressive, that I rarely post anymore. It just doesn't seem worth it.

And then, every once in a while, I decide to post, only to get hit with comments like yours, which only further confirms to me that posting here isn't worth doing anymore.

My view on Battlefoam is simple . I like it. it's a great product. If you don't want to buy one, don't buy one. Just don't be an jerk to someone if they do buy one.


You think I'm a cool-aid drinker because I bought a case that protects my minis, holds a ton of stuff, and was custom cut to hold my weird shaped minis? You know what- you're being an jerk when you write things like that. I'm kindly asking people to stop being such jerks around here.

I'd like to come to Dakka Dakka, chat, read some interesting news about minis, see some inspiring pictures. I don't need to hear ridiculous complaining, griping, or bizarre hostile posts over miniatures cases. Grow up, for everyone's sake and just chill out.

(Edited for my poor typing)

H.B.M.C. wrote:Why do Battlefoam threads always seem to get so hostile?

It seems like the most... mundane thing to get angry over.

If Battlefoam and Chapterhouse were to link up as one company, there would never be a thread about them that made it past page 3.
: )

Eric

Sgt Diablo wrote:I don't think you know the full details on a BF bag. They have a hard plastic inner shell.

I am intimitely aware of the construction of your bags, likely moreso than many of your customers because like Pipboy, I too have seen what happens when one of your bags meets a mishap during cargo stowage on an airplane.

As I was attempting to explain above, even softcases which claim not to be softcase are susceptible to such disasters. You case I DO lump into the soft cases which claim they are not softcases category for one reason. Structural integrity.

The structural integrity of your case come from the foam inside not from the case itself. Just because each side of the case has a piece of plastic inserted between two sheets of fabric does not a hard case make. Hard cases are classified as such because they offer structural integrity from the case itself and not rely on the foam or the seams in which the case is held together to give it it's structural integrity.

To claim otherwise is disingenuous.

I think your cases are a great compromise between the two however. Especially for the price.

Sgt Diablo wrote:Also, lets keep in mind that the test we are talking about are extremes. But with that said even if something like your bag getting smashed by a football player or getting dumped down a 6 story office building is norm then I would think an insurance claim would be the next think you filed with that airline.

I have infact kept in mind that the test in question is regarding extremes. if you honestly beleive that simply throwing a case 30 feet to drop down another 8 is what typically happens during airline stowage, then you are sorely misinformed.

The example I gave is very analogous to what would occur during normal and not so normal stowage of baggage in the cargo compartment as well as baggage handling to and from each destination. If anything, I was being generous as to what to expect towards your reviewers claim that his test is even close to what occurs during normal baggage handling.

I am not even referring to unforseen accidents that you mentioned in your post I am now quoting, I am talking normal to extreme baggage handling.

Sgt Diablo wrote:Compared to Army Transports, we are way ahead of the curve when it comes to protection. Compared to GW hard case durability, quality and volume we blow them out of the water.

All true. Although you conspicuously exclude actual hard cases in this comparison.

I love your products. All of them, have no doubt. I am merely pointing out that the reviewers claim that the test he performed is disingenuous in its claim that it replicates baggage handling.

An example was provided as to what could be done to replicate said normal to extreme baggage handling in order for the claim he made to be actually taken seriously.

Nothing more. Please keep that in mind.

Pelican cases! I agree that these are safe for airline travel, having used and packed them for my previous job with lots of fragile items.

However, these things are basically bomb proof!!! NOT what I want to lug around my small toy soldiers in!

That said, if I really had to ship something, or even check it in, I'd feel safer using one of those. However, I would never do that with miniatures (or a laptop)... I'd always carry it on.

I've also carried on a guitar to airplanes numerous times. I've heard horror stories from friends who were forced to check theirs, and it was cracked- but it never happened to me. Still... it doesn't mean I'd ever willingly check my guitar. Just as I'd never willing check my miniatures! No matter what they were encased in.

Sorry for the rambling post... but yet, pelican cases are "true" airline / shipping protection, but so much overkill (not to mention cumbersome and inconvenient... basically the opposite of BF's main features!) for any other purpose of housing minis!

But it's a good point, and worth noting if anyone is seriously considering checking a bag full of minis.

Howlingmoon wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Why do Battlefoam threads always seem to get so hostile?

It seems like the most... mundane thing to get angry over.

Because this is Dakka and 2 out of 3 threads get hostile for no apparent reason becuase it's been consistently allowed for certain people to get away with it at the expense of others?

Seriously man, what is your problem with this place? If it's so bad, why bother hanging around just to thread gak your negativity anywhere?

Or to put it another way, show me on the doll where the bad forum touched you.

RiTides wrote:
I've also carried on a guitar to airplanes numerous times. I've heard horror stories from friends who were forced to check theirs, and it was cracked- but it never happened to me. Still... it doesn't mean I'd ever willingly check my guitar. Just as I'd never willing check my miniatures! No matter what they were encased in.

True story:


Back on topic. I would never put minis in checked luggage no matter what case they are in.

I would never fly with minis. The scum-of-the-earth tournament gamers can come to me.

You're getting too convincing at that, H.B.M.C, I had to look at the dancing banana to make sure you weren't emitting a lupine cry at a lunar orbiting object.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I would never fly with minis. The scum-of-the-earth tournament gamers can come to me.

But you wouldn't be playing with them anyway, so what's the point?

I stumbled onto this thread, and after weeding through and watching the tests and such, I had an interesting though for the Battlefoam people....


Have you actually bothered to test your product to destruction? Legitimately abused the living snot out of your bags to know exactly how much ungodly abuse they can actually take?

I don't actually own one of your cases, though I have been looking for something other than a tacklebox and an ex-case of paintballs for transport, but I'm one of those people who asks different kinds of questions... I don't care what it CAN take, I'm more interested in what it CAN'T take. Stress loads under which your bags fail. I could toss a box of plastic minis 30 feet if they were packed in styrofoam peanuts, and see minimal damage, provided everything was properly packed in the boxes. drop 500 lbs. on one of your cases from 3 feet and check the extent off the damage, internal and external. Freeze it, fill it, and slam it around. Run a line of tests on it that would make the gamer community wince, cringe, and/or pee on themselves while they watch it, so they can understand just how far your product can go.


Is it expected use? No, but the expectation of failure when exposed to extremes can become a bit less nebulous when you say "We put this Battlefoam army transport bag in a freezer for 12 hours, then planted it at the foot of our 2 story warehouse and proceeded to drop bricks on top of it... here's the result". Kind of a "Don't try this at home, but here's what kind of abuse our product will stand up to, by the numbers.

Come to think of it, Does Underwriter's Laboratories actually do non-electronics/electrical appliance testing like that?


I love the look of the case, and the day to day utility of your bags look awesome. Maybe it's just me, though, but I never trust someone's word on something's durability unless they've actually gone out of the way to downright try to destroy. If you want to silence the detractors, then just take their arguments away from them. If the thing can survive being hit by a car after being quickly deep frozen, what else can be said about that?

This reminds me of the Blentec "Will it Blend?" YouTube campaign. They got lots of views and lots of props for what it COULD blend... but people were always asking for them to take it one step further. I think the usual requests were for them to attempt to blend a crowbar, or another Blendtec... but of course they never did, since it couldn't do those things

This was just a user video testing out their bag. It was thrown off a porch! If someone wanted to, they could push the bag to utter destruction... but it certainly doesn't make sense to do that from the company's point of view! It wouldn't make it any less entertaining for us... but unless one of us has the cash to spare, I don't think it's going to happen.

Hellfury wrote:Make no mistake Romeo, that I am in fact quite critical of your cases. I beleive it is disingenuous of the maker of the video to claim that the product will be safe for non-carryon airline travel, as much as he may think his test proves otherwise. Especially when two people who work or have worked for the airline industry has commented to the obverse.

A closer approximation of typical airline stowage test would constitute being thrown down 6 flights of stairs and being hit by a linebacker several times against a wall. All of this after it has been in a freezer for 3 hours.

To translate the above, you would need much tumbling (minor damage issues) and then several major impacts of several hundred pounds of pressure (obvious major damage issue) all while the contents are more brittle due to freezing temperatures.

If the models can take that kind of abuse in a softcase because of the structural integrity of the foam Battle foam uses, then I would say that it could then be reasonably expected to survive airline cargo and baggage handling.

I disagree with the claim that this is typical. If you’ve ever flown, you’ve seen the kind of luggage that most people have, and the vast majority of it is NOT Samsonite, or the old hard-plastic European things, which it would have to be if this level of abuse was indeed standard practice. I’ve had broken baggage, and I’ve had the usual level of baggage wear and abuse. The above-described linebacker hits are rare, IME.

That said, if I was going to check thousands of dollars in painted figs, I’d want a bag that could take the linebacker hits. The percentage chance of it happening is low, but it’s not impossible.

Sounds like a Challenge in the making.

BattleFoam Grand Tour 2010:

Pack a 1520 fully loaded with a pro painted army. Send it as checked luggage from AZ to LA. Demo at FLGSs in LA area. Next stop: San Francisco. Portland. Seattle. Denver. Minneapolis. And so on.

Videotape the bag coming off the luggage belt and videotape the figure inspection once unpacked.

At the end of the tour, draw a name from everyone who attended a demo as the winner of the bag and army.

And then we call all STFU about whether the case stands up to baggage handlers or not.

LMoE

At the end of the tour
When the road disappears
If there's any more people around
When the tour runs aground
And if you're still around
Then we'll meet at the end of the tour
The engagements are booked through the end of the world
So we'll meet at the end of the tour

That is great idea. I would do it with my 1520 case I own but I don't have enough minis that I don't care about to fill a 1520 case. Right now it is holding my infantry and cav sections of my 22500 point Ork Army that took me a year to collect.