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As promised. In this image you may be able to see what TopC is trying to communicate. The same scenario can happen if you have a bridge on the table and you have enemy troops under the bridge. You can tank shock enemy troops on the bridge without effecting the troops under the bridge. I do not think this is a RAW scenario, but more of a logic puzzle. You cannot Tank shock a unit that you didn't move through.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Insaniak - however if you consider the tank to only be moving in 2D (due to the "straight line" issue) then it HAS moved "through" the unit, as the line of travel that tank shock requires you determine HAS moved through the unit.

In 3D the tank has moved *over*, but in 2D it has moved *through* - hence the duality i mentioned above. It has moved above the terrain, hence has not triggered a DT, but "counts as" (for lack of a better term) moving through the unit for tank shock purposes. Otherwise only moving on a flat surface will ever work ofr tank shock.

It doesn't matter if the tank has moved through the unit or not, any effects of the tank shock only happen when the tank moves into contact with an enemy unit (page 68, upper right hand corner). After the initial contact is resolved, the tank shock rules aren't concerned at all whether or not the tank passes through the unit except for the final position of the tank.

So it passed through the unit's projection onto a 2D surface. So what?

insaniak wrote:I don't consider the tank to be moving only in 2D, because the rules don't say to do so

It was to reconcile the "must move in a straight line" portion - and if you ignore vertical movement you have moved "through" the unit as that is now a 2D line.

insaniak wrote:And regardless, even if you consider the tank to have moved through the unit in 2D, it still hasn't moved into contact with the unit (you know this because it hasn't touched any models in the unit, which would be required for contact to occur) which is what triggers the tank shock effects.

the rules talk about "contacting" AND "reaching" - and if your line has passed "through" the unit (in 2D) then you have "reached" the unit. In fact "contact" is only mentioned once, reach is repeatedly used, so knowing which is subordinate or if they are meant to be equal is tricky.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

insaniak wrote:I don't consider the tank to be moving only in 2D, because the rules don't say to do so

It was to reconcile the "must move in a straight line" portion - and if you ignore vertical movement you have moved "through" the unit as that is now a 2D line.

insaniak wrote:And regardless, even if you consider the tank to have moved through the unit in 2D, it still hasn't moved into contact with the unit (you know this because it hasn't touched any models in the unit, which would be required for contact to occur) which is what triggers the tank shock effects.

the rules talk about "contacting" AND "reaching" - and if your line has passed "through" the unit (in 2D) then you have "reached" the unit. In fact "contact" is only mentioned once, reach is repeatedly used, so knowing which is subordinate or if they are meant to be equal is tricky.

except that you cannot physically reach something, and not make contact. making contact means you have physically reached it in this case. the skimmer would not physically reach the intended tank shockees, the line may pass through them in a 2d format, but there are still barriers that prevent contact.

The 2D line that they have moved along HAS reached the unit.

It all comes down to what you consider a sensible compromise. Either the "straight line" MUST be 3D and therefore only perfectly flat TS are allowed, or it is 2D and contact-less (in 3D) TS are allowed, but all other TS are also allowed.

Of, you have a hybrid. Which isnt RAW but HYWPI

So if unit contact is required, can an eldar tank on the taller flying base ever tank shock a unit of grots, or ripper bases, or other stunty models?

nosferatu1001 wrote:The 2D line that they have moved along HAS reached the unit.

It all comes down to what you consider a sensible compromise. Either the "straight line" MUST be 3D and therefore only perfectly flat TS are allowed, or it is 2D and contact-less (in 3D) TS are allowed, but all other TS are also allowed.

Of, you have a hybrid. Which isnt RAW but HYWPI

Step 1 Thats where applying your 2d line to the board comes into play, if you look down on the board and imagine a 2d line. YES the LINE passes through the enemy unit.

Step 2 now apply that path to your skimmer, while moving the skimmer physically over this line does it physically come into contact w/ an enemy model? If yes, tank shock. If no, no tank shock.

thats how i see it, which also from what others are saying is how they are seeing it, or as closely as i can tell.

Krak_kirby wrote:So if unit contact is required, can an eldar tank on the taller flying base ever tank shock a unit of grots, or ripper bases, or other stunty models?

The base can still make contact w/ the enemy models, also if it passes "though" the unit....

Except you ignore the base of a skimmer EXCEPT when making contact to assault the skmmer.

So you cannot use the base making contact to consider the tank to have "contacted" the unit.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Except you ignore the base of a skimmer EXCEPT when making contact to assault the skmmer.

So you cannot use the base making contact to consider the tank to have "contacted" the unit.

why i added the portion after that says, "move through"

you sure are argumentative today, now you ignore the answer to the argument of this thread.. and every other thread your posting on is an argument.... do i sense a trend w/ you?

Excpet the base is ignored, so can never contact the unit. The base is only EVER considered for making contact by an assaulting unit - so now something that cannot make contact is considered to be making contact, which is exactly what you were arguing against before now....inconsistent much?*

*and it makes my position no less consistent, as it would be a TS either way (skimmer or not) under my reading of the rules.

I am not ignoring, simply disagreeing. If you feel this has been answered how YOU want it, ask to close the thread. I would suggest you stop with the snide remarks however (you know rule 1 right?), and look back as to who decided that SHOUTING repeatedly was a good thing to do. Hint: posters name begins with a "T"

nosferatu1001 wrote:Excpet the base is ignored, so can never contact the unit. The base is only EVER considered for making contact by an assaulting unit - so now something that cannot make contact is considered to be making contact, which is exactly what you were arguing against before now....inconsistent much?*

*and it makes my position no less consistent, as it would be a TS either way (skimmer or not) under my reading of the rules.

I am not ignoring, simply disagreeing. If you feel this has been answered how YOU want it, ask to close the thread. I would suggest you stop with the snide remarks however (you know rule 1 right?), and look back as to who decided that SHOUTING repeatedly was a good thing to do. Hint: posters name begins with a "T"

its fine to disagree, you should at least explain WHY, which you have begun to do so i dont have any problems.

The difference is moving through a unit is possible in his case, moving through a unit that is under a piece of terrain is not.

like if the skimmer were to stop ontop of his units, would they just sit there since he didnt touch them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
but...your right that is probably a question for a different thread..


Could a mod please lock this?