Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

rocklord2004 wrote:Soooooooo if I suffer from depression I can get away with things? Good thing I live in the U.S. and our doctors diagnose anything you can fake a symptom for.

Erm they are going to prision for a long time. You have a funny idea of 'getting away with things'.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:


These people have done a terrible thing. No-one is denying that. Not even the court.
They have admitted manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility.
To be prosecuted for murder it must be proven that there was the intention to kill. This has been the system in English Law for a long time. It is not sympamatic of any recent trend or a recent softening of the law.

Furthermore, I doubt if any of the above comments have been based on knowledge of the court case and the evidence submitted.
If you are suggesting that the defendant simply turn up and claim they are depressed, then you are much mistaken.
The defendants will have been subjected to medical examination. Faking it won't cut the mustard.

I am in no way condoning the tragic actions of these people. But the rantings posted on this thread serve no other purpose than gloating at another's misfortune. It is time for the self satisfied sneering to cease. A little girl suffered terribly and all that you can thing of is your own sense of moral superiority over the parents. To whom you wish to inflict a similar harm? To wish harm on another makes you no better than the parents you so perniciously criticise.

To do so given your supposed soundness of mind suggests a prospensity for sadistic gratification that is more disturbing than any short comings of the legal system.

Well said. The decision was the correct one in terms of justice.

Sorry Luci, i have to disagree. They are not "going away for a long time" They are going away for nowhere near long enough, and im tired of you hippy types saying otherwise.

As far as i am concerned, people like you and Chibi and such are basically rape/kill/torture/insert grotesque crime here/ enablers.

Its your fault that these people feel they can do these things safe in the knowledge that if the worst does happen and they get charged, they wont really be put through the ringer anyway.

And you lot love to say "oh i am in no way condoning the terrible thing that they did BUT.. blah blah blah"

Its so ridiculous its laughable, its like these devout Christians who say "oh i used to be an atheist but then..."

You dont really condemn them. You want to help them because in your misguided mind, nobody is really evil, and if they do bad things then it is societys fault for failing them. What a joke.

The thing i hate most about it is the hypocricy of it all. If Ian Huntley buggered your 6 year old daughter to death you would want to chop his nut off and be done with it.

At least i am honest about what i would do from the start.

Yes depression is a mental illness, but thems the breaks. If you do such a disgusting thing as torture a little girl to death, then you deserve to swing for it.

Ok it might not be their fault, but tough gak. Nobody would argue that Ian Huntey or Myra Hindley or Jeffery Dahmer or whatever arent flying rodent gak crazy, but whats the point in them being alive or RELEASED like these two scumbags are going to be in the very near future. If your that nuts, you cant be rehabilitated. So like a sick dog, you regretably put them down.

Burglars and thieves and junkies can be rehabilitated. Full blown killers, funny thing, im a tad more sceptical of.

You leftys make me want to vomit. The rantings serve nothing other than gloating?! What the hell does that even mean?! Nobody is gloating, they are demanding that these snakes be made to pay for their sickening crimes and attempting to prevent them being able to do it again.

The comfortable dellusion that the world is all lovely and shiny may make you feel better, but other people pay for your inability to deal with the real world with their fething lives when they or their kids get killed by psychos that get released back into society because left wing morons think that they no longer pose a danger to anybody even though they are as mad as a ships cat.

Your attitude sickens me almost as much as your holier than thou attitude. You arent better than me because you profess to believe in the ideals of a tolerant forgiving society. You are just a hypocrite.

I am more than happy to deal out some good honest violence, and if we ever have the good sense to reinstate the death penatly for the most abhorent of crimes i will happily carry out the executions myself on the first friday of every month free of charge. Ill even use a hammer or some other bludgeoning weapon so the tax payers dont have to pay for gas/electricity/ammunition.

Matt

Opinion is one thing, but insidious comments about myself and others is another
They are malicious, personal and ill informed. Please retract your statement or offer an apology.

In what way are my opinions ill informed? Due to the fact i dont agree with you? In no way can i retract something that i entirely agree with. I can of course happily apologise if you take offense to any words i use when refering to socialist types or my views on the judicial system. But i might point out that if you get offended by such talk you might want to refrain from subjects that people might feel passionately about. You know, two adults torturing and killing a little girl. Funny thing i find it difficult not to get a tad angry when discussing such things.

I totaly understand where Mattyrm is coming from,and personaly think these two people who did that to that child should be fed into a fething wood grinder feet first.
Sorry,but I have no pity when it comes to anyone who would treat a child in such a dispicable manner.

In what way are my opinions ill informed?

As far as i am concerned, people like you and Chibi and such are basically rape/kill/torture/insert grotesque crime here/ enablers.
Its your fault that these people feel they can do these things safe in the knowledge that if the worst does happen and they get charged, they wont really be put through the ringer anyway.

And you lot love to say "oh i am in no way condoning the terrible thing that they did BUT.. blah blah blah"

Its so ridiculous its laughable, its like these devout Christians who say "oh i used to be an atheist but then..."

You dont really condemn them. You want to help them because in your misguided mind, nobody is really evil, and if they do bad things then it is societys fault for failing them. What a joke.

The thing i hate most about it is the hypocricy of it all. If Ian Huntley buggered your 6 year old daughter to death you would want to chop his nut off and be done with it.

At least i am honest about what i would do from the start.

Yes depression is a mental illness, but thems the breaks. If you do such a disgusting thing as torture a little girl to death, then you deserve to swing for it.

Ok it might not be their fault, but tough gak. Nobody would argue that Ian Huntey or Myra Hindley or Jeffery Dahmer or whatever arent flying rodent gak crazy, but whats the point in them being alive or RELEASED like these two scumbags are going to be in the very near future. If your that nuts, you cant be rehabilitated. So like a sick dog, you regretably put them down.

Burglars and thieves and junkies can be rehabilitated. Full blown killers, funny thing, im a tad more sceptical of.

You leftys make me want to vomit. The rantings serve nothing other than gloating?! What the hell does that even mean?! Nobody is gloating, they are demanding that these snakes be made to pay for their sickening crimes and attempting to prevent them being able to do it again.

The comfortable dellusion that the world is all lovely and shiny may make you feel better, but other people pay for your inability to deal with the real world with their fething lives when they or their kids get killed by psychos that get released back into society because left wing morons think that they no longer pose a danger to anybody even though they are as mad as a ships cat.

Your attitude sickens me almost as much as your holier than thou attitude. You arent better than me because you profess to believe in the ideals of a tolerant forgiving society. You are just a hypocrite.

I am more than happy to deal out some good honest violence, and if we ever have the good sense to reinstate the death penatly for the most abhorent of crimes i will happily carry out the executions myself on the first friday of every month free of charge. Ill even use a hammer or some other bludgeoning weapon so the tax payers dont have to pay for gas/electricity/ammunition.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
it was an ill considered rant.
I have as much right to read this thread as all the other members of Dakka
You do not have the right to abuse fellow members
The attacks are personal, despite trying to hide behind loose and purile terms of lefty, hippie etc.
Can you really not see the irony of condemming the violence of others while expressing a desire to inflict it yourselves
apologise or retract, sir

mattyrm wrote:Sorry Luci, i have to disagree. They are not "going away for a long time" They are going away for nowhere near long enough, and im tired of you hippy types saying otherwise.

You leftys make me want to vomit. The rantings serve nothing other than gloating?! What the hell does that even mean?! Nobody is gloating, they are demanding that these snakes be made to pay for their sickening crimes and attempting to prevent them being able to do it again.

The comfortable dellusion that the world is all lovely and shiny may make you feel better, but other people pay for your inability to deal with the real world with their fething lives when they or their kids get killed by psychos that get released back into society because left wing morons think that they no longer pose a danger to anybody even though they are as mad as a ships cat.

Your attitude sickens me almost as much as your holier than thou attitude. You arent better than me because you profess to believe in the ideals of a tolerant forgiving society. You are just a hypocrite.

Where the feth does someone taking a less aggressive stance to your own idea of justice make them a 'leftie'.

tell you what I've gotten fething sick of Matt, you and several other right-wingers believing that you can equate someone having left wing politics with being 'soft' or a 'hippie' or that having a social conscious is a mark of weakness.

As a socialist, I believe in the provision of welfare for those in society who find themselves unable to work or in the support of those needing it due to the circumstance of finding themselves without work, I believe in the provision by the state of a solid level of education for all, the provision of a solid level of healthcare for all.

As a socialist I also believe no fether gets a free ride. No fether gets to sit on his arse and get handouts for doing nothing. That's entire families of the spongers on benefits and the 'landed gentry' who have vast swathes of land just because some bootlicker in their ancestry kissed enough ass of some unelected despot in the 14th fething century.

As a socialist I believe in the idea of social responsibility, that I pay towards the support systems and the state systems of health and education and benefits for those who find themselves in need. I have no time for 'dole spongers' who make it their life's career to live off society and never contribute, in the same vein I have not one piss pot of sympathy nor illusion about the real cost to this country of the leeches in The City and other areas who dodge the fair taxation, who indulge in finding loopholes to find ways to hold onto so much money they will never spend just so they deny that money to the state.

Do not believe that the notion of showing sympathy towards the feths that starve a child to death comes from the Lefties pal, cos I am a lefty, and I'd see these unproductive citizens removed permanently.

This has nothing to do with people who suffer from depression, I understand depression and have a great deal of sympathy with it after watching the parents of my murdered cousin fall to pieces. This has everything to do with depression being cited as an excuse to mitigate a parent wilfully and over the period of months and years allowing their own child to starve.

This is about the poor way our legal system works, this is about the gakky state of our Child Protection services.

I, as a socialist, as a supporter of the people, would have no problem with allowing these two to hang for what they have done. Regardless of political alignment, the wilful starvation of a child by it's own parent is a horrific thing.

Do Not suggest that it's down to socialism to 'justify' what occurred here.

mattyrm wrote:

Its so ridiculous its laughable, its like these devout Christians who say "oh i used to be an atheist but then..."

You dont really condemn them. You want to help them because in your misguided mind, nobody is really evil, and if they do bad things then it is societys fault for failing them. What a joke.

The thing i hate most about it is the hypocricy of it all. If Ian Huntley buggered your 6 year old daughter to death you would want to chop his nut off and be done with it.

At least i am honest about what i would do from the start.

I am in agreement with much of what you say, but do not assume that all carry low standards in our society. people might yet suprise you.

There is an advocate, I heard her on the radio pro-positioning for peace and understanding within the UK, and doing so clearly and well. Sadly I do not recall her name. She was a mother whose son had died in the 7/7 bombings. She had found it in herself to forgive rather than hate.

How did she manage this? A conviction strong enough that even the BBC gave her airtime and they normally refuse airtime to others who share her beleifs unless they are blatant irrelevant whackjobs. I cant truly speak for her, but I think her words might be something on the lines of "oh i used to be an atheist but then..."

But then the tenets of Christianity are turning the other cheek, rather than taking an eye for a tuff.

apologies for the brief reply chaps im at a beer festival and on my phone. MGS, i rather like you mate, but you have to accept that generally speaking left leaning types are more 'progressive' than us right leaning types with regards to dealing with crime. And as i said chub, im sorry if you are upset, but you made your bed, and must lie in it. I dont see how you saying that people who are disagreeing with you are 'gloating' about this terrible affair is any less offensive than me saying i find your attitude repellant. You wish to silence me because i disagree with you. Its that simple. And dont call me 'sir'. We are equals, and i work for a living. :-)

This is why I am an anarchist.
Some governments are so out of touch with their people it makes me sick.
I am not one of those "Destroy the government and kill the bankers," anarchists,
I am more of the "I hate the current government, but I wish they would listen to the
people for once," anarchists.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:But then the tenets of Christianity are turning the other cheek, rather than taking an eye for a tuff.

True but there are execptions, for example

"Thou shall not kill"

That is a christian tranlation and is less specific. The church replaced "murder" with "kill" probably to make sure you don't go about killing some one who acedently stepped onto your farm by mistake.

PS: Jesus didn't completly say that everything in the old testerment was abserloute rubbish, he said he came to complete it. It's confusing but I personally think that it is about what the circumstances are. "An eye for an eye" was a rule made when the Jews were stll desert communities where you had to be strict or other wise the community gets compromised by crime.

People's thinking about how and why to deal with crime is all over the place no matter what part of the political spectrum their basic beliefs lie in.

mattyrm wrote:apologies for the brief reply chaps im at a beer festival and on my phone. MGS, i rather like you mate, but you have to accept that generally speaking left leaning types are more 'progressive' than us right leaning types with regards to dealing with crime.

I'm glad you like me. I'm a nice guy.

Don't use progressive as a negative connotation... Progress is a good thing. As to dealing with crime, the further from the centre you travel in either direction, the more draconian we find people's treatment of crime, Uncle Joe was certainly no slouch on the law and punishments...

I strongly believe that in this country or in any compassionate, civilised nation, a mother giving birth to a handicapped child should know that the state will support and aid her as she sacrifices the rest of her life to raise and care for that child. As a taxpayer, one without children of my own nor any intention of having any, I am quite prepared to pay a reasonable tax, according to my income to facilitate the maintenance of those within my nation that require help and that in doing so, I am also preserving the social support system should I or anyone around me have need of it.

And I'd like the left to regain it's teeth. I was pleased to see the angry mob waiting for that bastard Griffon, I find it a shame we don't roar with such anger when other fascist organisations, like those more strident elements of Islam operating in our nation.

I can assure you, when I'm appointed First Citizen of the New Collective of Peaceful, Reasonable Keep the fething Noise Down Status Quo Britain, all of them will be up against the wall faster than you can say 'Get along nicely or fething else...'.

I am closing this thread. If anyone has an issue they can PM, but frankly the whole thing is sad and I don't think even the OT needs to be a place to discuss this in light of what happened to the munchkin.