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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8519862.stm

A woman and her partner systematically starved her children, until one of her daughters died of starvation in the family home.

The step father would take the children out into the cold and drench them with cold water before locking them outside. The daughter was breaking into the next door garden to eat the stale bread from the bird table.

So, the result? The step father and the mother, who systematically tortured these children, to the extent that one died, both get their charges reduced to manslaughter from murder. Because? Depression.

This reduction of sentence is an insult to the memory of the child, who died in agony.

[sarcasm] Its not their fault, they are disadvantaged. Had they the same opportunities as the majority this would not have happened. [/sarcasm]

Point is I know of people who have nearly lost their children on a point of dogma. If you don't adhere to New Britains way of childrearing you are a monster.

Give your kid a slap so he doesn't grow up to be a chav and you have social services all over your arse counting your haemerroids. while in 'other cases' Social services wont interfere in case they offend a different culture, or worse be seen as racist.

I am not calls Blacks bad parents, most Anglo-Africans would be as sickened by this as we are, but nothing is done about the rotten eggs and largely this is on a point of dogma. We know this is true because of how much they overreact to the slightest perceived offense otherwise. Saying that social services dont target chav parents either, Baby P case and many others. Its the middle class who get the beatstick.

You would have thought with the nations opinions on child abuse and the age of consent that the government would have done something about underage arranged marriages by now. But no.

I prefer the way things went back in Victorian times. Back then if you were depressed you were the one locked up, given ice baths and refused food.

It seems to me that we have created a society which glorifies mental illness and the result is that bad people are using it as an excuse to explain away their dispicable actions.

Shoot the pair of them and dump their miserable corpses in the sea.

Disgusting. Same goes for the copper who got let off because he was "battling OCD" or the rapist who had a "bad childhood"

Im so so tired of this. Is nothing anybodys fault anymore!?

Must... supress.... fury....

That's friggin' disgusting.
I can't believe it. What sort of MORON judge makes that sort of call? God, I hate judges.

Those parents should be locked away and friggin studied. Starving their kids to death? That's...there are actually no words. Manslaughter me hole.

Its all about accountablity. Some people don't feel that should be accountable for their actions and the act of politcal correctness helps them out.

A bs justification for the reduction of charges. Depression? His dad was abusive ten years ago? There was food stocked in the house, and these people took deliberate steps to lock it down so that their children couldn't get at it. There's no "manslaughter" here, there's torture and murder.

It's not just the UK that this happens though. Parents seem to automatically gain sympathy from juries, even if they're twits and abusive to their children.

Da Boss wrote:Manslaughter me hole.

Aye, go on then. I've got 5 minutes to spare.



p.s. I would personally dish out a spot of stairwell justice to those two.

p.p.s Censorship is oppression.

Albatross wrote:

Da Boss wrote:Manslaughter me hole.

Aye, go on then. I've got 5 minutes to spare.



.

We can take some solace in knowing a certain amount of stairwell justice would be dished out, especially to the mother in a women's prison. A lot of the incarcerated ladies are mums themselves and most aren't in there for cruelty. As my uncle, a former screw in Wandsworth, told me, "You ever want to kick gak out of a nonce, lad, you wrap the bastard in cold, wet towels first. He won't bruise then." Wise words!

The problem here seems to be that a murder charge would not have been accepted and if applied would have been appealed against and probably overturned anyway because of the available evidence and reports.

This case shows that it is not a problem of the courts making rather that the case should never had gotten this far and children should not have been subjected to such cruelty. Due to the way in which our services currently operate and the sheer volume of work they have it is no wonder that such cases lead to tragedy.

Having worked for child protection social services, I can certainly agree that the service is drastically undermanned, morale is shot to gak and the budgets are squeezed tighter every year.

Is it really that surprising?
In any case, when the Tories win the next election.. Well it will stay the same because they are both as bad as each other -Sigh-

It is looking fairly likely the next election will produce a hung parliament.

That will be interesting.

Instead of everyone shouting insults while the government rams through whatever idiot legislation the Daily Mail though of this week, the parties will actually have to talk to each other.

Kilkrazy wrote:It is looking fairly likely the next election will produce a hung parliament.

That will be interesting.

Instead of everyone shouting insults while the government rams through whatever idiot legislation the Daily Mail though of this week, the parties will actually have to talk to each other.

And we'll have 4 years of talking and no legislation passing.

How sad it is that I think thats going to be an improvment.


Tory/Labour are as bad as each other, and the Lib-Dems will never amount to anything.
I rather hope quite a few UKIP/Greens/BNP/CD/Indy's get in. Force the big guys to do a double take.



On Topic:
If ever there was a good argument for the **Cough**Death Penalty**Cough**

Did you know the ex-Solicitor General said in an interview on Radio 4 that over 3,000 new criminal offences were created while he was in office?

He said he had no idea what they all were, and doubted anyone else did either, and they were a waste of time and effort.

We also have the world's longest tax code. It has grown from 9,000 pages to 13,000 over the past 10 years, but it would be more if they hadn't made the type smaller.

That is what we have got from having governments with strong majorities over the past 30 years.

"battling OCD"

Who's battling me? Oh, I see.

Anyhow, absolutely disgusting, string 'em up or even better inflict on them what they inflicted on her. Why are we such pansies in the legal department?

The OC-D

You quickly come to a point where you say change the law, but to what? and what are the exceptions? how do you apply the law?

You cannot blame the judge in this case.

1. It isn't the judge who decides the charge, it is the police and director of public prosecutions.

2. Judges' sentencing is more and more defined in advance by rules laid down by the government, leaving them less discretion in how to treat individual cases.

squilverine wrote:I prefer the way things went back in Victorian times. Back then if you were depressed you were the one locked up, given ice baths and refused food.

It seems to me that we have created a society which glorifies mental illness and the result is that bad people are using it as an excuse to explain away their dispicable actions.

Shoot the pair of them and dump their miserable corpses in the sea.

I suffer from depression
you are cordially invited to come round here and try you fascist pillock!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I suffer from depression
you are cordially invited to come round here and try you fascist pillock!

Do you use it as an excuse to torture kitties and act like a massive gakker? If not, no-one really cares.

I prefer the way things went back in Victorian times. Back then if you were depressed you were the one locked up, given ice baths and refused food.

so you think that is an acceptable attitude
he has suggested rather obnoxious things be done to people such as myself
Rather similar to those practiced during the Third Reich

You also take my statement out of context and make noxious assumptions.
obviously as it is not RAW you struggle to cope with the implications of the illness.

Do you really think the knee jerk responses help that poor child?
who it seems was starved and given cold baths

Keep your nasty ideology on the gaming table and try treating people with more respect and compassion.

Clinical depression is a form of mental illness and should be treated with the same compassion and care as a decent person would show towards you if you had a broken leg or typhus.

Modquisition on. Everyone play nice now and remember Dakka Rule #1

There are several problems I see for social services:

1) There are not enough of them
2) Recruitment is hamstrung by the fact they are underpaid, overworked, and villainised by politicians looking to score cheap points and media trying to sell a story
2) They are crippled by paperwork
3) They are crippled by policies requiring them to try and keep families together.

I've read that the research shows that young people are best off in their own families.

My personal experience is that yes, maybe, but there are also several cases where I have seen children taken into care who become almost instantly happier, more balanced, more functional human beings.

The principle influence in a child's life is their immediate family until the age of about 8-10 when they start to be more influenced by friends and peer group.

If the parents and family are scum, the children will be in the crap from birth.

There aren't millions of families like that but a lot of children suffer in different ways from poverty, deprivation and passive neglect.

Just to be sure I don't think all families above a certain income level are wonderful. They avoid the poverty thing but they can equally well inflict the neglect in mental and emotional ways.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Having worked for child protection social services, I can certainly agree that the service is drastically undermanned, morale is shot to gak and the budgets are squeezed tighter every year.

I'm sure it is that way everywhere. In Washington DC a year or so go, a local school called protective services about a student you had stopped comming to school. Don't remember all of it. But from what I do, when protective services did finally go to the home they found the ladies 3 children dead. A lot of finger pointing went on at the agency about what took so long.

I saw the title, and I was going to make a joke about squats. Then I read the thread and changed my mind. Sickening.

Soooooooo if I suffer from depression I can get away with things? Good thing I live in the U.S. and our doctors diagnose anything you can fake a symptom for.

Seriously though when this couple gets placed in prison it needs to be announced through through the prisons and have the gaurds turn their backs. Nature will take its course and they will get whats coming to them.

rocklord2004 wrote:Soooooooo if I suffer from depression I can get away with things? Good thing I live in the U.S. and our doctors diagnose anything you can fake a symptom for.

Seriously though when this couple gets placed in prison it needs to be announced through through the prisons and have the gaurds turn their backs. Nature will take its course and they will get whats coming to them.

Of Motes and Beams

These people have done a terrible thing. No-one is denying that. Not even the court.
They have admitted manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility.
To be prosecuted for murder it must be proven that there was the intention to kill. This has been the system in English Law for a long time. It is not sympamatic of any recent trend or a recent softening of the law.

Furthermore, I doubt if any of the above comments have been based on knowledge of the court case and the evidence submitted.
If you are suggesting that the defendant simply turn up and claim they are depressed, then you are much mistaken.
The defendants will have been subjected to medical examination. Faking it won't cut the mustard.

I am in no way condoning the tragic actions of these people. But the rantings posted on this thread serve no other purpose than gloating at another's misfortune. It is time for the self satisfied sneering to cease. A little girl suffered terribly and all that you can thing of is your own sense of moral superiority over the parents. To whom you wish to inflict a similar harm? To wish harm on another makes you no better than the parents you so perniciously criticise.

To do so given your supposed soundness of mind suggests a prospensity for sadistic gratification that is more disturbing than any short comings of the legal system.