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blood angel wrote:

I don't see a reason why he would not be an IC, could just be omission by posters.

I've seen the codex. I have the Army List. I've specifically looked for this.

He is not an IC.

He's on par with the Swarmlord for HtH ability....is it really that hard to imagine why a model that is normal infantry-sized doesnt need the protection of an accompanying squad?

Oops obviously remembered that wrong =p but still his toughness is freaking awesome. Not a lot can ID him, and you fan always hide him behind your Librarian Dreadnought =p

Or have his own personal transport . . . or some other way round not being an IC. Still going to be in my army =D

Now how to make 3 Librarian Dreadnoughts cheaply . . . 5 psykers in a marine army? Yes please =] could be fun if you ask me =p

Oshova

So can you equip the Magna Grappler to as many Dreadnoughts you have in the force say 3 Dreadnoughts with 3 Magna Grapplers??

Or is it a

"One Dreadnought may exchange its standard weapon for a Magna Grappler a X amount of points??"

Can someone please clue me in on what weapons can ID Mephiston?

Last time I checked, highest strength weapon was 10.

There is nothing that can double T6, is there?

I do believe there are a few weapons that cause "instant death" at range apart from their strength. I believe Eldar and Orks each have one if memory serves correct.

Now you come to mention it . . . Unless you play Apocalypse no he can't suffer ID. I forgot that the DA psychic flaming attack is S 2D6-2 . . . not 2D6.

=D go Mephiston . . . as tough as a Tyranid lol

Oshova

Doesn't a wraith cannon ID a model on a wounding role of a 6? Toughness would not stop that.

Skulltaker should be able to take him out quickly.

Unless he has an immunity to them, Force Weapons can ID him.

I believe Boneswords cause ID regardless of toughness, too, or am I misremembering that?

The Crucible of Malediction can whack him if he fails a Ld test.

Wraithcannon would remove him on a wound roll of "6."

The SAG has a chance to one shot him.

I'm sure there are more, but those are off the top of my head.

Oshova wrote:

5 psykers in a marine army? Yes please =]

. . .said Eldrad Ulthran as he rubbed his hands together menacingly.

Meanwhile, across the galaxy, Zoanthropes and Hive Tyrants salivate at the thought of 5 psykers.

BA Librarian says: "Runes of W-what? Shadow in the Who? Hey...I have a headache......"

Mephiston will be aweseom...assumign he doesn't get meltas/bolted/plasma'd to death on his way into combat.

Mephiston is a loyalist Daemon Prince, really.

Now, I don't say this until they've actually been released and played etc. and I recognise the irony as I play Space Wolves, but tbh the new Blood Angels seem a bit over-powered to me...

(yes I know some people will go crazy at me for saying this...)

but I struggle to see why, for one thing, the BA's get so much that others don't, I mean hell, why can't other chapters have dreadnought librarians? Or Stormravens (Redeemers and Crusaders got shared around pretty fast)? or deep-striking Land Raiders? or such effective apothecaries?

FNP to all squads within 6", Librarians striking at Str10, death masks, transfixing gaze, death company re-rolling to hits and to wounds, fast vindicators and preds and transporting a dread AND infantry?!

I just hope a lot of it works in a out-going and fun, rather than over powered way.

I mean, hell this seems like an over-powered and fluff-overblown codex IMHO, I recognise you have to take it with a pinch of salt til they're released and I am usually cynical about people claiming new codex's to be overpowered but damn. Please prove me wrong!

I find it funny that alot of the people complaining about not getting the new stuff for all marines were someof the same ones telling Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and BT's tough when we complained about bigger transport sizes for Land raiders, and Stormshields being better than ours.

Just Dave wrote:Now, I don't say this until they've actually been released and played etc. and I recognise the irony as I play Space Wolves, but tbh the new Blood Angels seem a bit over-powered to me...

(yes I know some people will go crazy at me for saying this...)

but I struggle to see why, for one thing, the BA's get so much that others don't, I mean hell, why can't other chapters have dreadnought librarians? Or Stormravens (Redeemers and Crusaders got shared around pretty fast)? or deep-striking Land Raiders? or such effective apothecaries?

FNP to all squads within 6", Librarians striking at Str10, death masks, transfixing gaze, death company re-rolling to hits and to wounds, fast vindicators and preds and transporting a dread AND infantry?!

I just hope a lot of it works in a out-going and fun, rather than over powered way.

I mean, hell this seems like an over-powered and fluff-overblown codex IMHO, I recognise you have to take it with a pinch of salt til they're released and I am usually cynical about people claiming new codex's to be overpowered but damn. Please prove me wrong!

Save the "broken!" claims until we see points, man. Many of these complaints are also unfounded-- for example, a normal Librarian is *better* than a BA Librarian.

I'm genuinely curious; why would anyone play vanilla marines anymore? It seems like GW is making the other chanpters way more powerful than Ultramarines.

agnosto wrote:I'm genuinely curious; why would anyone play vanilla marines anymore? It seems like GW is making the other chanpters way more powerful than Ultramarines.

Again, please save these claims until you see points and FoC. Vanilla Marines have advantages of their own.

Fetterkey wrote:

agnosto wrote:I'm genuinely curious; why would anyone play vanilla marines anymore? It seems like GW is making the other chanpters way more powerful than Ultramarines.

Again, please save these claims until you see points and FoC. Vanilla Marines have advantages of their own.

I dunno, this bloodthirst thing seems better than combat squading IMHO...

Demonslayer82 wrote:So can you equip the Magna Grappler to as many Dreadnoughts you have in the force say 3 Dreadnoughts with 3 Magna Grapplers??

Or is it a

"One Dreadnought may exchange its standard weapon for a Magna Grappler a X amount of points??"

at least for death company dreads (the ones i looked at most), each one bought can be equiped with a magna grapple for 15pts. suprisingly, it does NOT replace a weapon but is an additional weapon for the dread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fetterkey wrote:

agnosto wrote:I'm genuinely curious; why would anyone play vanilla marines anymore? It seems like GW is making the other chanpters way more powerful than Ultramarines.

Again, please save these claims until you see points and FoC. Vanilla Marines have advantages of their own.

hmm... let me see... lets start with combat tactics and the huge number of options you get simply by swapping an HQ. army wide fleet, stubborn, twin linked melta/flamers, simply choose your morale result (marneus' god of war), etc. then there are thunderfire cannons, the scout transport speeders, masters of the forge which allow some dread spam, ironclad dreads that are super shooty or super assaulty, cheaper TH/SS termies, combat squads (SW don't get that but BA do), extended cab transport vehicles (like 12 man drop pods and LRs), and bike troops to name a few...

And the best Librarians of any Codex. Can't forget that.

And the best Librarians of any Codex. Can't forget that.

If SW Rune Priests count as Librarians in this context they are easily more useful than their vanilla counterparts.

Therion wrote:

And the best Librarians of any Codex. Can't forget that.

If SW Rune Priests count as Librarians in this context they are easily more useful than their vanilla counterparts.

False. Null Zone is the best psychic power in the game at present, except vs. Nidzilla, where Jaws comes into its own.

Brother SRM wrote:Mephiston is a loyalist Daemon Prince, really.

I was waiting for someone to point that out :p Just no 50% obscured rule.

Fetterkey wrote:

Therion wrote:

And the best Librarians of any Codex. Can't forget that.

If SW Rune Priests count as Librarians in this context they are easily more useful than their vanilla counterparts.

False. Null Zone is the best psychic power in the game at present, except vs. Nidzilla, where Jaws comes into its own.

False. Not only is Jaws a complete hard counter against one rather popular army, the Rune Priest nullifies enemy powers better, while taking advantage of the psyber-raven special rules. Overall, he's simply a lot more bang for the buck. Good try though.

Therion wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:

Therion wrote:

And the best Librarians of any Codex. Can't forget that.

If SW Rune Priests count as Librarians in this context they are easily more useful than their vanilla counterparts.

False. Null Zone is the best psychic power in the game at present, except vs. Nidzilla, where Jaws comes into its own.

False. Not only is Jaws a complete hard counter against one rather popular army, the Rune Priest nullifies enemy powers better, while taking advantage of the psyber-raven special rules. Overall, he's simply a lot more bang for the buck. Good try though.

Jaws hard counters one variant of one build that appears to be falling out of fashion with the new Codex. Null Zone hard counters several different builds in several different armies. The Rune Priest's nullification ability is approximately equal to that of the Librarian, but nobody takes a Librarian or Rune Priest for nullification anyway-- if you really care about nullification, it's time to bring out the Holy Inquisition. The Chooser of the Slain is an interesting ability but not a dominant one, and is at times completely useless. In my eyes, Rune Priests really don't live up to all the hype.

Jaws hard counters one variant of one build that appears to be falling out of fashion with the new Codex.

Falling out of fashion where? The Tyranid codex is barely out and I'm fairly sure we'll see a lot of Tervigons and T-Fexes this tournament summer all around the world. The nullification ability isn't equal as you very well know. I'm not saying the Librarian is a bad HQ choice, and I don't know what hype you're talking about, but in my eyes the Rune Priest is simply better overall (despite the two being good at different things). To get back to the actual topic, I would also add that I somewhat agree with one of the earlier posters who said that vanilla SM are becoming more and more obsolete. They still have a few playable builds unique to them, but those are few and far between once the BA book is out and it gets even worse for SM at tournaments where special characters are banned.

Re: psykers-- I still maintain that Null Zone > Jaws. I am not joking or exaggerating when I say that Null Zone is the best psychic power in the game at present, and that includes Fortune, Warp Time, Weaken Resolve, etc. I wouldn't even place Jaws in the top five, much less call it better than Null Zone.

Re: competitiveness-- I think we'll have to see. I suspect that BA will be considered more competitive than SMs, as their generic mech build seems stronger to me. As you say though, SMs still have playable builds and unique strengths. The dual LR Vulkan TH/SS build, for example, is still quite powerful. I don't think SM are going to be going away anytime soon, but I do think BA are going to be a serious contender on the tournament scene, and probably considered better than SM for most basic builds. After all, skilled BA players are already placing at major events with their old Codex-- the new and improved book will likely make them even more effective.

Disallowing special characters is silly and uncompetitive, so that's not really a factor in my area. Doing so seriously hurts most new Codices, though, not just SM, and indeed I don't think it would have as much of an effect on the SM as you say-- after all, the most common SM HQ choice is the generic Librarian. No special characters does hurt Wolves and Salamanders a lot, though.

Fetterkey wrote:Re: psykers-- I still maintain that Null Zone > Jaws. I am not joking or exaggerating when I say that Null Zone is the best psychic power in the game at present, and that includes Fortune, Warp Time, Weaken Resolve, etc. I wouldn't even place Jaws in the top five, much less call it better than Null Zone.

You'll notice I didn't say Jaws was better than Null Zone. I also like Living Lightning and Storm Caller. It's pretty hard to rank psychic powers like that. Is a bolter better than two chainswords, or a plasma gun better than a terminator armour? It's situational. I said Jaws hard counters Tyranids and that the power is one of the things I really like about the Rune Priest.

Re: competitiveness-- I think we'll have to see. I suspect that BA will be considered more competitive than SMs, as their generic mech build seems stronger to me. As you say though, SMs still have playable builds and unique strengths. The dual LR Vulkan TH/SS build, for example, is still quite powerful. I don't think SM are going to be going away anytime soon, but I do think BA are going to be a serious contender on the tournament scene, and probably considered better than SM for most basic builds. After all, skilled BA players are already placing at major events with their old Codex-- the new and improved book will likely make them even more effective.

Disallowing special characters is silly and uncompetitive, so that's not really a factor in my area.

It's neither silly nor uncompetitive. It's different. Easily the most competitive tournament in the world for both Warhammer and Warhammer 40K, the ETC, isn't allowing any named characters this year. If you're curious, WH and DH allies are banned too. I know the Americans on this board will take offence but I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of the best players participate in that tournament and I'm saying this because of the way you disregarded the idea as uncompetitive. I base this claim on nothing else than the fact that there are more active players in the EU than in the US. As you might know the tournament isn't restricted to European teams so put a team together and fly over. As far as I know the Canadians and Australians are coming this year to join the 15+ other countries, but I digress. The point still stands. In the occasion when named characters are restricted, SM are nearly dead in the water once the BA are out.

I personally don't think any unit should be banned. They put it in the game so it's legal right? No? You mean I can't use this unit here in my book? Oh... I wonder why they made it then? (Btw, this isn't intended as an attack on you, just sayin')