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Gwar! wrote:Care to explain why, considering I have just spelled out the RaW for everyone to see?

The immolator can fire its weapon. I am 100% sure of this and I don't think it needs to be explained.

Don't do it Limey. It's a trap!

Limey wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Care to explain why, considering I have just spelled out the RaW for everyone to see?

The immolator can fire its weapon. I am 100% sure of this and I don't think it needs to be explained.

It cannot, by RaW.

And, you didn't answer my question.

Gwar and I have argued this point in a number of threads, with him stating that by RaW templates from fire points don't work, while I've pointed out that by RaW templates from fire points do work.

As to placing templates from a turret, an Immolator is a special case, but not for what Gwar mentioned. The rules indicate that for vehicles, a template is placed with the narrow end against the weapon nozzle; however, in the case of an Immolator that has two nozzles separated by an inch and a half, where does the narrow end get placed?

Per Gwar, it doesn't as it upsets the RaW. By RaW, the template is place against one or the other nozzle. Many players simply place the narrow end in the middle as a compromise. Technically, per RaW, the template should be place first at one nozzle, then the other, until the maximum number of models in a targeted unit are coved to determine hits (an Immolator has “twin” Heavy Flamers that are treated as twin-link, but they are not twin-linked).

This means that yes, the template may cover the hull of the firing vehicle when placed correctly. And like an infantry model firing a flamer, the vehicle is not affected by the template. This is why, per RaW, we are able to fire template weapons from fire points, as the transport is counted as the firer for placement and measurement purposes.

SJ

I just looked at the rulebook and unless I am missing something, there is no special exception for firing template weapons that are on a vehicle. You fire them just like you do with infantry.

Correct.

SJ

Meaning per raw it can come from anywhere on the hull. Unless gwar has found some hidden rule....

Solution: Don't play Gwar!

"Gwar!. Gwar! never changes. Since the dawn of human kind, when our ancestors first discovered the killing power of flamer and melta, blood has been spilled in the name of everything, from RAW to RAI to simple, psychotic rage."

Really, though, I have to imagine he's a reasonable human being in person... or an evil RAW-bot sent back in time to prevent some RAI-spawned revolution in rules. Either one seems pretty likely

I can see Gwar! at his FLGS now

Random witchhunters player: and my immolator fires at your squad of marines.
Gwar! : NO!!!! IT CAN NEVER FIRE!!!
Random witchhunter: huh!?
Gwar! : THAT'S RIGHT! ACCORDING TO MY EXTENSIVE STUDY OF RULES AS WRITTEN BLAH BLAH BLAH... (10 minutes later) BLAH BLAH BLAH... SO YOU CAN NEVER FIRE THE WEAPON MWAHHAHA!!!
Random witchhunter: umm, most people I play let me fire the flamers....
Gwar! : BUT I AM GWAR! GWAR! I TELL YOU!!! I FIND THE MOST OUTRAGEOUS LOOPHOLES AND BEAT THEM INTO THE GROUND!!!!
Guy at next table: most people just pack up thier stuff and leave by now.

Limey wrote:I can see Gwar! at his FLGS now

Random witchhunters player: and my immolator fires at your squad of marines.
Gwar! : NO!!!! IT CAN NEVER FIRE!!!
Random witchhunter: huh!?
Gwar! : THAT'S RIGHT! ACCORDING TO MY EXTENSIVE STUDY OF RULES AS WRITTEN BLAH BLAH BLAH... (10 minutes later) BLAH BLAH BLAH... SO YOU CAN NEVER FIRE THE WEAPON MWAHHAHA!!!
Gwar! : BUT I AM GWAR! GWAR! I TELL YOU!!! I FIND THE MOST OUTRAGEOUS LOOPHOLES AND BEAT THEM INTO THE GROUND!!!!
Guy at next table: most people just pack up thier stuff and leave by now.

Actually it goes more like:

Random witchhunters player: and my immolator fires at your squad of marines.
Gwar!: Hey man, funny thing, you know technically it cannot fire?
Random witchhunter: umm, most people I play let me fire the flamers....
Gwar!: BUY ME BOOZE TO FIRE THE FLAMERS. Just kidding, go ahead and fire it.

But wait, I may want to play the liquored up Gwar!

I think Gwar! is once again grasping at straws here just so that he can argue for the sake of starting an argument on Dakka Dakka.

Modquisition on. Drop the Gwar attacks, NOW. These violate Dakka Rule #1 most strongly. You always have the option of hitting IGNORE. Do not test me on this.


(except images of a drunken Gwar thats always satisfactory).

Ok then, Ill attack the rules and ideas, but not users

The idea that an immolator cannot fire, or that a flamer cant fire Since the fire Point has a small bit of hull between it and the edge of the tank, is an Idea that was born from other ideas conjured up by idea thinkers who tend to lean toward being a rule nazi. Those Ideas end up makeing people out to be dicks.

Such ideas, in my opinion, have no place in a game thats supposed to be "friendly" and filled with the younger types. It is also my opinion that the ideas, who think that ideas like the above are cool should unclench their rear ends and let the rod slid out, and stop being the rule lawyering type, for the OTT ideas are ruining the game as we know it.

Does it really matter which nozzle the template is placed at since they are on a turret that can swivel?

make a long barreled heavy flamer so they extend over the hull. Problem solved.

thehod wrote:make a long barreled heavy flamer so they extend over the hull. Problem solved.

That's cheating! :(

Gwar! wrote:

thehod wrote:make a long barreled heavy flamer so they extend over the hull. Problem solved.

That's cheating! :(

Well, not much worse than adamantly claiming a stock vehicle can never use the weapons it comes with. Sometimes one just needs to ignore the most idiotic rules interpretations. ;-)

If somebody had OCD bad enough that they were worried about this coming up, I wouldn't call it modeling for advantage were they to choose to extend the barrels to the tip of the hull, just modeling for normalcy.

Heck, better yet make one of the two barrels the default length and the other one extended. Use the regular unless somebody decides to be a stickler.