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Someone should also copy-paste or link the relevant information needed to make those who do not have Vassal or the 40k module installed be able to have easy access via Dakkadakka use it, unless that is a no-no to do that via advertising it on this forum (never thought about that).

I believe hosting a file that has been issued a C&D would be a bad thing.

However, Google-fu is strong and the file still exists as of today.

I just added some links to my first post.

And relax - discussing something is not against the law. Hosting the files is not even against the law, but no one around here is doing that.

No links or hosting on here, please.

Mannaheim, I'm not hosting anything on Dakka, but posting a link pointing to Miniwargaming.com, which is posting a link to another website is not troublesome by ANY definition in any country. Freely discussing someone elses' content is different than hosting that content yourself.

We're ok here.

I cannot participate since I cannot realistically pay you, but I would like to observe. When will the first rounds be? What will the tournament format be? (swiss?)

I am intrigued, since one of the dichotomies that keeps arising amoung people arguing for or against certain armies as competitive/noncompetitive is the idea of theory vs. tourament results. However, tourament results may very well be skewed by local metagame ( like how foot is still used a lot in American west), travel limitations, and of course, people who just don't feel like buying new models. Since very nearly all of these limitations are removed by playing on vassle, I will be VERY interested in seeing what lists people use and what lists prosper.

Dash - for a couple of years, I ran an international online Shadowfist CCG league on the, now defunct, CCG Workshop's gatlingEngine. I can say from experience that running something like this is challenging, but well worth it. I ran the league with 10 'weekly' events and then a final at the end of the season. We had anywhere from 10 - 25 players per event and total had about 40 players active in the league at any given time.

The biggest challenge in running this was organizing the virtual 'tables' - who was going to be playing whom. Granted, with Shadowfist, we were trying to get 3-4 players per table, so coordinating international games could be extremely challenging. What I wound up doing, though, was contacting each player about what times generally worked for them over the course of an average week. While this led to there being de facto 'divisions' in the league (i.e. the Aussies, West Coast U.S., Midwest U.S., East Coast U.S., and Europe) where players within these divisions played each other more often than players outside their divisions, players were generally flexible enough so that I could mix up the tables and get everyone playing everyone else.

Once I organized which player was at which table, I'd email the players at that table and say, "Okay, you two are opponents. It's up to you to work out exactly when you can get your game in. You have within 7 days to play your game and get me the results." Each event generally lasted 2.5-3 weeks to get 3 rounds of play in. It took a long time, but it allowed for the most flexibility in allowing truly global participation.

For Shadowfist, I was able to get prize support from Shadowfist Games, so players won real prizes for virtual games - generally limited edition cards, although I ponied up for some prize support for the last few games (DVDs, etc.). That way there was no entrance fees for players - again, trying to eliminate all international barriers to play.

The second biggest challenge was coming up with rules for disconnections, stalled games, opponents not showing up for games, completing incomplete games, etc. Along with this, I had to develop specific rules about players getting byes under these conditions as well.

Before my experience with this, one of the Shadowfist Games reps had attempted to organize a single tournament. While well-intentioned, it wound up rubbing some folks the wrong way as, much like a tournament at a brick-and-mortar store, it required that all the players be at the same place at the same time. This was good for folks in the right time zone, but not so much for folks outside of it, particularly as this meant that folks were online for the better part of a day, much of which was sitting and waiting for stuff to happen.

Having never played Vassal, I don't know how quickly it plays, but having played CCGs on gatlingEngine, Blood Bowl on JavaBowl, and Battletech on some other java-based system, I've found that TT games take a lot longer to play online than they do in person. Consequently, you have to spend some time thinking about whether or not to have rules for the amount of time games take.

Anyway, hope this helps - feel free to shoot me a PM if you want to discuss my experience more outside the thread.

Death By Monkeys:

Thanks for the feedback.

I can say that I'm leaning towards multiple weeks to resolve a tournament, with one game per day. Determining the time is going to take some thought and input, but here's what I've got in mind:

Every player will have to be online, on Skype, ready for their round shortly before their round starts. Every table would be identical round 1, and all players would be able to download and save the map immediately prior to their game. Pairings would be posted online (like on Dakka here) for the first round shortly before the round started, and the two players would call each other on Skype, set up a room on Vassal, import their map and armies into the moving trays, and get started.

I *do* plan for this to be a paid event. If its free, 90 people will express interest and register, 30 will show up, and over the course of three weeks, 15 will drop out. That's a lot of work for people who decide to flake out. Dropping an entry fee into a tournament guarantees that the participant will show up on time, play their games, not cheat, and be a good sport, or risk losing their entry fee.

It doesn't matter what the entry fee is really, since there is no rent or overhead to be paid; just prize support to fund. I can probably expand entry fees beyond paypal if I need to, but I'd prefer to keep it digital for tracking purposes.

Having one game a day should work though...for everyone except Australians I suppose. =p If games are hosted at 11:00 AM EST on Sunday - that's 0800 on the West Coast, 1600 across most of Europe, 1700 in South Africa, and 0200 in Sydney. Kind of hard to include the Australians, but pretty easy to hit everyone else in the English speaking world for a late morning, afternoon, or early evening game at the same time.

Sounds like a great idea, Dash! I don't know if I would charge for the first one because of potential logistic problems. I do see what you mean about people flaking out, though. Maybe limit the first run to 20-30 people and use that to work the kinks out before charging people. That or just keep it a small entry fee maybe.

On a side note: I'm moving to the middle of nowhere and have been worried about finding some way to keep current with 40k... and completely forgot about Vassal. Thanks for the reminder about it!

Milquetoast Thug wrote:tourament results may very well be skewed by ...people who just don't feel like buying new models. Since very nearly all of these limitations are removed by playing on vassle, I will be VERY interested in seeing what lists people use and what lists prosper.

I'll also add painting the models as well as paying for them, but this part is *very* true. I have good success with DE compared to many other players - but then I'm actually psychotic enough to own 3 Ravagers, and 11 Raiders. Not everyone can do that. I know my Space Wolves army would be a lot better if I was willing to pay for and paint a small army of Razorbacks. But I'm not, so I just play them with what I have and I do fine, but I don't compete to the level I could with a different SW list.

There better be a good peanut gallery for this thing, is what I'm saying.

Wow, people are using the 5th edition Tyranids I put together? I kitbashed them so my mates and I could play, uploaded them to a lesser known forum and never heard a thing until I went on 5 minutes ago and saw people playing games with them. Thanks guys, makes me feel all warm =]

Those sprites are fantastic. Absolute lifesaver. Thanks a bunch.

Spacegoat wrote:Wow, people are using the 5th edition Tyranids I put together? I kitbashed them so my mates and I could play, uploaded them to a lesser known forum and never heard a thing until I went on 5 minutes ago and saw people playing games with them. Thanks guys, makes me feel all warm =]

Lol, we were wondering who the dude was that created that and now we know

Now go make Tyranid Mycetic Spores

So Dash, I think we have enough interest to actually get something like this going??? wink wink..nudge nudge.

It won't be in the next month or two - there's a GT in April, and May has 'Ard Boyz, making a multi-week event difficult.

I *also* plan to have a month or three of lead time for people to arrange schedules, register....for word to get out on the internet, for people to make lists and learn Vassal....etc.

By the way....my Skype name is Dashofpepper.

Folks, you should add me to your contact list to get in touch with via Skype so I can add you to my own list, and have a bigger pool of potential people to pull from to play games against.

I'm interested, but it'd depend entirely on the price and time. I nearly always work from mornings to early evenings, especially on sundays. I also have classes to schedule around (though if this takes place over the summer, that may alleviate some of the issues). In short, just give me a price amount and a expected time, and I'll give my answer. Thanks!

1) Points limit?

2) I have been tinkering with the program a lot, and cannot seem to figure out how to make and store an army (and the one I was trying to put in for my 'Ard Boyz list ran out of space for the little icons). I read that guide on saving an army, but I guess i need lower points limits or a new list.

3) When I do get online, I only see maybe 8 players total. That doesn't seem right. Do I maybe have an old version? Can someone at least tell me the current version of the program and support files if they aren't willing to post links (which confuses me as to the secrecy)? I can use my internets skills to track things down from there.

2) Just hit the - button on the tray to zoom out.

3) 5.2 is in highest use as of now.

Fearspect wrote:

3) When I do get online, I only see maybe 8 players total. That doesn't seem right. Do I maybe have an old version? Can someone at least tell me the current version of the program and support files if they aren't willing to post links (which confuses me as to the secrecy)? I can use my internets skills to track things down from there.

No, sometimes there really are only 8 people online... and sometimes there's like 50. it varies from day to day.

Milquetoast Thug wrote:

Fearspect wrote:

3) When I do get online, I only see maybe 8 players total. That doesn't seem right. Do I maybe have an old version? Can someone at least tell me the current version of the program and support files if they aren't willing to post links (which confuses me as to the secrecy)? I can use my internets skills to track things down from there.

No, sometimes there really are only 8 people online... and sometimes there's like 50. it varies from day to day.

This too

I hereby officially register my interest. I'd love to see this get off the ground! I could probably interest another 2-3 UK players as well, once I give them some 'Vassal training'.

why do you need skype. I like vassal as it is quiet and can play while the rest of the house sleeps or when work is slow.

Hey, we should also make sure everyone has the same version of vassal40k before we start.

I downloaded Vassal last night, so I'm hoping to maybe get in on this or at least get some games in now that I'm in a 40k no man's land.

skkipper wrote:why do you need skype. I like vassal as it is quiet and can play while the rest of the house sleeps or when work is slow.

I prefer it with skype... text can be too easily misinterpreted, especially when a lot of people choose to type like five year olds for some reason.

Dash outlined rough times earlier, only the Aussies would be playing during the night... relatively few in number I think. Playing at work can't be a good idea, surely? What does your opponent do if suddenly things get busy for you?

I'm all for it, I just need to get a mic, and maybe a better internet connection lol. I sold my army, so I've been on Vassel nonstop. My skype is Mrbutterscotch99, and my vassel name is Inquisitorlordbane, feel free to hit me up, anyone


and ill be making a new skype to match my name, but not until details are set

this would be a GREAT idea, but the time zones can be an issue. time limit as well? i noticed vassal games can take much longer than tabletop sometimes.

Yeah, our first game (just finished as of 10 minutes ago!) took forever. But, also had to figure out all the ins and outs... It was nice to play some 40k without having to drive 30 minutes in the rain.

I'll be tinkering with this some, and look forward to getting some games in- any further word on getting this going?

YES!!!11!!!one!!!!

I could have sworn you had an idea for this a while ago Dash?

Anyway, if I can get the money by then, I will be entering, will there be a maximum of players allowed?

Will the scenarios be put up before the event?

How will the first match pairing go?

How will you possibly make sure all the lists are legal/points legal?

Will a judge pop in every once in a while to settle disputes? How many matches will there be?

How many days will the event take?

Will microphones be required? (My lazy-ness can't be bothered to buy a microphone, though I do have a headset, and I type quickly with few errors...)

Perhaps you could have a panel to help you check armies/judge the tournament.

Anyway, I am eager to see if I can join or not, you know my skype name.

EDIT-There are 35 players on right now at approx. 9:14 East coast united states time. Not too shabby!

I've been experimenting in small steps.

Next step on the way to a Vassal GT is me hosting other events on Vassal - for example, the 350 point boss brawl FFA tomorrow on Vassal that's open to anyone.