Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It comes down to list, playstyle, and experience. I've played with 5th ed. tyranids 9 games and only lost twice. Once to SM and once to another tyranid. My best bud plays mechanized orks similar to DoP's lists and has never even had a chance to deffroll me.

How many lances are in your army? Divide them by 2, that is how many Lances you have after the KFF negates half of them...

CC the transport is also difficult given it moved 12" so hit on 6s...

Another point that has yet to be made...the bugs are very good at causing leadship tests...they have an arsenal of psychic weapon that rip orks apart...And as light as ork armor is...nids are going to rip through it with rending claws or even venom cannons...

Templates are the only way to remedy this...Burna boys do hurt.

You can use lootas...but Deathleaper has probably already jumped on them.

A deep striking Doom...if well placed can cripple orks...or least cause one heck of a distraction...

I like orks...they actually make it worthwhile to use venomthropes, pyrovores, and biovores.

2 hive guard, 2 zoans, 1 flyrant with 12 twin linked str 6 shots. That's enough to stun/immob./pop 1-2 BW a turn.

Then fleet trygon charges and gets rerolls on 7 attacks with 2d6+6 pen vs av10 (always rear armor vs transports).

Only played 2 games so far vs orks with 3 BW and like I said, they haven't gotten a chance to tank shock yet.

The max lances that a Tyranid list can have is 3 units of 3. The elite slot is also home to the Hive Guard right? You end up with 3 units that can break a Wagon and each of those is either S8 or has short range. Sorry Jack but if those wagons get to you 2nd turn you are unlikely to stop most of them even if you do take 9 Zoanthropes/Hive Guard. Zoans in pods have a better chance but they also die quick to rollas, risk scattering, and then come in turn 2 at the earliest. If the ork player went first he's likely already in assault.

I guess you could take Tyrannofexs, Hive Guard, Venom Carnies, and Zoanthropes but then your bodycount is too low to swarm the orks and any wagons that get through are goingt to have a field day.

Tyranids have more trouble against transports. Nobody is saying they can't win though.

powerclaw wrote:The max lances that a Tyranid list can have is 3 units of 3. The elite slot is also home to the Hive Guard right? You end up with 3 units that can break a Wagon and each of those is either S8 or has short range. Sorry Jack but if those wagons get to you 2nd turn you are unlikely to stop most of them even if you do take 9 Zoanthropes/Hive Guard. Zoans in pods have a better chance but they also die quick to rollas, risk scattering, and then come in turn 2 at the earliest. If the ork player went first he's likely already in assault.

I guess you could take Tyrannofexs, Hive Guard, Venom Carnies, and Zoanthropes but then your bodycount is too low to swarm the orks and any wagons that get through are goingt to have a field day.

Tyranids have more trouble against transports. Nobody is saying they can't win though.

I appreciate that your defense on in writing is sound, but I'm telling you my experience hands-on. Things like deployment, terrain, and 1st vs 2nd turn make or break a plan.

I play a fully footslogging tyranid force in our local circuit at 1850pts every game. I typically place hive guard (str8 assault2 24" range shooting that ignores LoS) on one flank, zoanthropes and trygon in the middle, flyrant on the other flank. Mixed in are gargoyles, hormis, gants, genestealers, venomthrope, etc.etc. I will have side armor shots from the hive guard and flyrant. Zoanthropes start on the board so no waiting for reserve rolls. Trygon (and even hormi's and genestealers) have fleet so if you rush me with wagons 13" per turn, I will dance so that I get the charge. Even hormis with adrenaline on an 18" carge will glance a BW to death. If you unload the wagons on t2 with a waaagh charge, then you've muddied up a large mass that can't be tank shocked. Once the boys are out, it's all over between toxic, adrenaline, and counterattack (tervigon->termagants), preferred enemy (all units within 6" of tyrant), and spore cloud (venomthrope). A 10 model unit of gargoyles with toxins, adrenaline, and preferred enemy from the tyrant solo'd Ghaz last game and cost me 80pts.

Don't get me wrong, orks have some sick things. BW with burnas will 1 round any unit as long as they stay mobile and mounted, but when 10 gargs costs 80pts, 10 term's cost 50pts, 15 hormi's cost 120pts, you prolly won't make your points back before I pop the wagon and wipe up the burnas.

FWIW two weeks ago was our bi-monthly 1850 tourney. 32 players took part and tyranids took 1st and 2nd. It's just a matter of becoming comfortable with the new codex and playstyle and not getting locked into the 4th ed. mindset.

The problem with this method i've been seeing, to deal with a C&P Ork build, is that it's a whole army shift to deal with it, all three of your eleit slots, shooting at something with a 4+ save, or 'rocking-up-next-to' with MC, which against things like rollas is straight suicide.

So to deal with wagons Nid are devoting 500+pts now if if you manage to popthem, remeber boys with hidden Klaws are still gold, if it's immobialised you will need to devote another round of shooting to pop them as Riggers will just get them rolling again.

And it's just that, to have a hope against normal Mek @2000+ orks Nid's must ust must Wreck 4 BW's before their turn 3, immob won't cut it, and if their not pop, and you have to 'danc' to try and get the charge while to orks this really means 'splitting your forces'.

What I'm saying is that while striving to take a balanced list the Nid's are really really going to suffer against a 'balanced like a wrecking-ball' ork list. And i still haven't seen a balanced against other forces nid list that will happily deal with the variety of treats orks throw out.

So do the Bugs just take "silver bullet units" to even the odds against armies that use a transport rush... without pigeon holing themselves to being just good against that kind of list?

I run the following nid list.

Tyranid prime with dual boneswords and scything talons.

2 squads of 3 hive guard

3 zoanthropes in a pod.

2 squads of 10 termagaunts

2 tervigons with catalyst, adrenal glands, toxin sacs.

2 squads of 10 genestealers with toxin sacs.

20 gargoyles with toxin sacs, adrenal glands

2 trygons.

Its worked wonders against orks so far. Let them charge a gaunt screen and eat them on the counter charge.

You need a way to clear the Gaunts, then something to charge what's behind what you cleared. I think the best way, would be shootaboyz, backed up by stormboyz.

Remember, jump infantry doesn't have to use their jump packs, and even if they do you can find something to hide behind. I found that a hail of shoota shots can clear away most gaunts. (62 bullets will do that, even at BS2) The problem, is once that happens the sluggas can't charge what they didn't shoot at....so don't. Jump the stormboyz in, dakka away the gaunt wall, and then chaerg! Stormboyz are basically slugga boyz, they will put some amount of hurt on things like Hive Guard, and they will wipe zoanthropes out.

For the MCs, you need something else. The only real answer is lootas or Tankbustas, of the two, I think lootas do better. Although the rokkits get past the 3+, if the nid player is putting FNP on his big bugs there's no point, It'd be better to shoot more bullets at them.

Anyways that's my 2c, and I recommend some salt, as I have yet to actually beat bugs (old or new) with my orks.

The big swing ork did have was a 2-4 points per unit value now this has been cut way down, to 1-2 point advantage (IMO) and in some cases the ork models are costing more - still for 'more' but yeah the pure weight on numbers can be harsh.

Basically - I'd be running Snikt not stormboys, never getting out of active wagons, and yes looting, take the horde out of a nid list and orks will win, if you're not out of wagons things like tervigons and maw's won't eat you , and at the end of the day MS are just big ol' dreads to be bogged down and trimmed by a PK.

(over simplification maybe but hey )

hyv3mynd wrote:

powerclaw wrote:The max lances that a Tyranid list can have is 3 units of 3. The elite slot is also home to the Hive Guard right? You end up with 3 units that can break a Wagon and each of those is either S8 or has short range. Sorry Jack but if those wagons get to you 2nd turn you are unlikely to stop most of them even if you do take 9 Zoanthropes/Hive Guard. Zoans in pods have a better chance but they also die quick to rollas, risk scattering, and then come in turn 2 at the earliest. If the ork player went first he's likely already in assault.

I guess you could take Tyrannofexs, Hive Guard, Venom Carnies, and Zoanthropes but then your bodycount is too low to swarm the orks and any wagons that get through are goingt to have a field day.

Tyranids have more trouble against transports. Nobody is saying they can't win though.

I appreciate that your defense on in writing is sound, but I'm telling you my experience hands-on. Things like deployment, terrain, and 1st vs 2nd turn make or break a plan.

I play a fully footslogging tyranid force in our local circuit at 1850pts every game. I typically place hive guard (str8 assault2 24" range shooting that ignores LoS) on one flank, zoanthropes and trygon in the middle, flyrant on the other flank. Mixed in are gargoyles, hormis, gants, genestealers, venomthrope, etc.etc. I will have side armor shots from the hive guard and flyrant. Zoanthropes start on the board so no waiting for reserve rolls. Trygon (and even hormi's and genestealers) have fleet so if you rush me with wagons 13" per turn, I will dance so that I get the charge. Even hormis with adrenaline on an 18" carge will glance a BW to death. If you unload the wagons on t2 with a waaagh charge, then you've muddied up a large mass that can't be tank shocked. Once the boys are out, it's all over between toxic, adrenaline, and counterattack (tervigon->termagants), preferred enemy (all units within 6" of tyrant), and spore cloud (venomthrope). A 10 model unit of gargoyles with toxins, adrenaline, and preferred enemy from the tyrant solo'd Ghaz last game and cost me 80pts.

Don't get me wrong, orks have some sick things. BW with burnas will 1 round any unit as long as they stay mobile and mounted, but when 10 gargs costs 80pts, 10 term's cost 50pts, 15 hormi's cost 120pts, you prolly won't make your points back before I pop the wagon and wipe up the burnas.

FWIW two weeks ago was our bi-monthly 1850 tourney. 32 players took part and tyranids took 1st and 2nd. It's just a matter of becoming comfortable with the new codex and playstyle and not getting locked into the 4th ed. mindset.

Since we're talking about ork versus tyranids here, I think that you haven't seen any particularly good ork players if that list with that setup is something you're comfortable beating on orks with. You're willingly spreading your army across your deployment zone, with short and medium ranged anti-tank on either end, meaning that a decent player player is going to readily roll up one of your flanks and be comfortably distant from most of your bad things.

You're welcome to try your list against me anytime you like. See my earlier post about Vassal, or show up to one of the GTs I'm headed to this year.

*Starts chanting*
Vassal vassal....

But yep orks, are and will be for a long time a giant wrecking ball, if your splitting your shooting up that good for ork, if your splitting up your MC that's good for orks, basically if an ork player is being distracted and splitting their units, their not at the top of their game.

They have the best troop in the game, with some of the best AV14 stuff that's out, and this isn't giving you problems when they have 4+ saves and your splitting your force against it? I'd be saying it's a level of competition more than ork wouldn't trouble Nids.

What I'm trying to get at is for almost any solution to orks that nids can take selectivly, the natural Ork Mek has a solution already built in. I can't really summon something that the Nid do 'better' or in a fashion the orks can't control other than Tervigon spam.