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If that's what it is, then I'm very underwhelmed. I've seen eldar lists with way more S6 rhino killing power, and the medusa and manticore are really just hoping for good rolls. Even if you penetrate a tank, it's 1/3 chance to kill them.

I'd think that rather than the inquisitor with mystics, or maybe in addition to, I'd take a witchhunter inquisitor with the wargear that says "make a leadership test. If you pass, you decide which board edge to take" which in 5th, means you're going first.

My Problem is, he went first turn every single time.

Ive seen way too many shooty armies loose horribly because they were denied the first turn.


A Solid shooty list is one that takes 2nd turn and wrecks just the same. If he ever went 2nd against a SAFH army with long range tank killers, you can reduce its power substantially.

Link to article. Not trolling, I'm not even a member there.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

Faced this list the other day with Daemonhunters...big ole tie...

I was impressed...but at the end I still had Stern with a retinue of 7 and a LRC sitting in the middle of his tanks...

I found that ramming stuff worked quite well.

Well, i dont think deepstriking melta is your answer to ig leafblower ... my inquisitor + mystics loves telling that squadron of 2 plascutioners to blow their load of 10 plasma templates at any infantry that happen to end up within 4d6" of them ... that or a squadron of 2 vendettas for 6 tl las shots.

kill dem stunties wrote:Well, i dont think deepstriking melta is your answer to ig leafblower ... my inquisitor + mystics loves telling that squadron of 2 plascutioners to blow their load of 10 plasma templates at any infantry that happen to end up within 4d6" of them ... that or a squadron of 2 vendettas for 6 tl las shots.

Do you mean "8 plasma templates"? I can't find anything that lets the plascutioners rotate before firing and they'd only get to fire all 10 if the enemy popped right in front of them.

Ludovic wrote:

kill dem stunties wrote:Well, i dont think deepstriking melta is your answer to ig leafblower ... my inquisitor + mystics loves telling that squadron of 2 plascutioners to blow their load of 10 plasma templates at any infantry that happen to end up within 4d6" of them ... that or a squadron of 2 vendettas for 6 tl las shots.

Do you mean "8 plasma templates"? I can't find anything that lets the plascutioners rotate before firing and they'd only get to fire all 10 if the enemy popped right in front of them.

Interesting... What is the consensus of this? Pretty much limits an artillery squadron getting "mystified" if its pointed the wrong way.

Mmmm I'd say that only infantry and walkers can rotate to fire as a Vehicle that pivots has to do so in the movement phase. I list walker as it is stated in the rules that when it shoots it can turn to face its target.

Cheers,
~Volkan

Byte wrote:Interesting... What is the consensus of this? Pretty much limits an artillery squadron getting "mystified" if its pointed the wrong way.

As I noted before, sending your forces a few units at a time against this list is bad, whether from your table edge or in deepstriking. The thing to note (unless I'm wrong), is that you can overload this, right? Like, a unit can only shoot at incoming deepstrikers once, so if you deepstrike 8 units at a time, several of them will arrive unmolested.

The inquisitor is designed to brutalize casual deepstrikers, but if you built your army around it...

It really depends on how the rules for Mystics are worded.

Mystics allow you to shoot...not to move...so turret weapons and squads are the way to go...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also...kill dem stunties: there is a way to get around Deepstriking melta without deepstriking...it can really mess up the leafblower...Melta Torpedo.

For reference I'll include a pretty bog-standard 2k IG gunline, with no "tech". This'll give you an idea of what a modern post-mech leafblower looks like.

CCS 4x melta chimera

PBS (8-strong) chimera
inquisitor 2x mystics 2x hierophants psychic hood emperors tarot chimera

PCS 2x flamer autocannon chimera
infantry squad flamer autocannon chimera
infantry squad flamer autocannon chimera
veterans 3x melta chimera
inquisitorial stormtroopers 2x melta
inquisitorial stormtroopers 2x melta

vendetta with heavy bolters
vendetta with heavy bolters
vendetta with heavy bolters

2x hydra
manticore
manticore


14x armor 12 vehicles. 4x twin-linked autocannons, 4x autocannons, 7x multi-lasers, 9x twin-linked lascannons, 2d3 strength 10 ordnance blasts, 11x heavy bolters. All that stuff reaches into your deployment zone on the top of turn 1. Plus you get a board-wide psychic hood, an anti-deepstriking gag and an 83% chance to get +1 on the very important roll to go first. And then just in case you managed to get by the onslaught there are 7x BS4 meltas, 4x heavy flamers and 4x flamers waiting.

It isn't unbeatable, but CSM in particular have a really hard time with it because although they have some very good choices for long range anti-tank, it happens to all fall in the same slot. If they could have some decent shooty elite choices, and some decent cheap and fragile shooty fast attack choices, then it'd be easier.

One of the big conundrums every army faces is that whenever you purchase a cool close combat unit that has upgraded weapons or abilities that you use to win combats, then you weaken your position against gunlines... They don't care how badly you can beat them in close combat, because they know they'll get at least two turns before that happens, and they can feed you 55 point sacrificial units until you run out of gas.

Armies that can put down MSUish shooty units in a couple different slots give me the most fits. You can even include 400-500 points of pure CC, but the rest needs to be survivable troops or long range anti-tank. i wonder how this would fare....

lash prince or warptime nurgle prince

3x termicide 3x combi-melta (or the minimum number of terminators that can get you a reaper autocannon)
3x termicide 3x combi-melta (or the minimum number of terminators that can get you a reaper autocannon)
3x termicide 3x combi-melta (or the minimum number of terminators that can get you a reaper autocannon)

3x obliterators
3x obliterators
3x obliterators

then add some troops of whatever variety you feel. I'm far from a CSM expert admittedly, But I know that when my firepower with IG gets suppressed for a turn, either on one or on two then a door opens for me to end up losing, but I haven't lost a game where I've been untouched on both turns one or two. No one can field enough assault units to let an IG gunline go unmolested for two turns.

Keeping that in mind will help tune a CSM list up to take on mech gunlines, IMO.

Mystics don't shut down deep strikers.

#1 Deep strikers can easily avoid the range of mystics. They just don't get to deep strike into their ideal location.

#2 It's easy to kill mystics. At best they are in a Chimera which is AV10 on it's sides that will explode and hit everybody in the squad with a str4 hit to their t3. If there are only 2 mystics in the squad it's highly likely that 1 of them will die in the vehicle explosion. The main flaw of most IG/SM players who use mystics is they don't field 6 henchmen and only field 2 mystics then acting surprised when one dies in a vehicle explosion. Outside a vehicle henchmen fair even worse as they are only T3 and few in number.

Can someone tell me what 'leafblower' guardmen are?

The Acolyte wrote:Can someone tell me what 'leafblower' guardmen are?

Dude, you've got to actually read all the posts before posting something of your own.

Plus, you can deepstrike into or behind cover, right? I mean, you don't need to deepstrike directly in front of the =I= and executioners. As schadenfreude said, it just means you need to be more careful. Remember that most of that artillery has a minimum range, so if you can get in under the range AND behind cover, you've basically negated the alpha strike alltogether.

Ailaros wrote:As I noted before, sending your forces a few units at a time against this list is bad, whether from your table edge or in deepstriking. The thing to note (unless I'm wrong), is that you can overload this, right? Like, a unit can only shoot at incoming deepstrikers once, so if you deepstrike 8 units at a time, several of them will arrive unmolested.

The inquisitor is designed to brutalize casual deepstrikers, but if you built your army around it...

actually, you'd get a shot at each of the 8 units in your example.

Shep wrote:For reference I'll include a pretty bog-standard 2k IG gunline, with no "tech". This'll give you an idea of what a modern post-mech leafblower looks like.

CCS 4x melta chimera

PBS (8-strong) chimera
inquisitor 2x mystics 2x hierophants psychic hood emperors tarot chimera

PCS 2x flamer autocannon chimera
infantry squad flamer autocannon chimera
infantry squad flamer autocannon chimera
veterans 3x melta chimera
inquisitorial stormtroopers 2x melta
inquisitorial stormtroopers 2x melta

vendetta with heavy bolters
vendetta with heavy bolters
vendetta with heavy bolters

2x hydra
manticore
manticore


14x armor 12 vehicles. 4x twin-linked autocannons, 4x autocannons, 7x multi-lasers, 9x twin-linked lascannons, 2d3 strength 10 ordnance blasts, 11x heavy bolters. All that stuff reaches into your deployment zone on the top of turn 1. Plus you get a board-wide psychic hood, an anti-deepstriking gag and an 83% chance to get +1 on the very important roll to go first. And then just in case you managed to get by the onslaught there are 7x BS4 meltas, 4x heavy flamers and 4x flamers waiting.

It isn't unbeatable, but CSM in particular have a really hard time with it because although they have some very good choices for long range anti-tank, it happens to all fall in the same slot. If they could have some decent shooty elite choices, and some decent cheap and fragile shooty fast attack choices, then it'd be easier.

One of the big conundrums every army faces is that whenever you purchase a cool close combat unit that has upgraded weapons or abilities that you use to win combats, then you weaken your position against gunlines... They don't care how badly you can beat them in close combat, because they know they'll get at least two turns before that happens, and they can feed you 55 point sacrificial units until you run out of gas.

Armies that can put down MSUish shooty units in a couple different slots give me the most fits. You can even include 400-500 points of pure CC, but the rest needs to be survivable troops or long range anti-tank. i wonder how this would fare....

lash prince or warptime nurgle prince

3x termicide 3x combi-melta (or the minimum number of terminators that can get you a reaper autocannon)
3x termicide 3x combi-melta (or the minimum number of terminators that can get you a reaper autocannon)
3x termicide 3x combi-melta (or the minimum number of terminators that can get you a reaper autocannon)

3x obliterators
3x obliterators
3x obliterators

then add some troops of whatever variety you feel. I'm far from a CSM expert admittedly, But I know that when my firepower with IG gets suppressed for a turn, either on one or on two then a door opens for me to end up losing, but I haven't lost a game where I've been untouched on both turns one or two. No one can field enough assault units to let an IG gunline go unmolested for two turns.

Keeping that in mind will help tune a CSM list up to take on mech gunlines, IMO.

Why take the stormtroopers instead of IG vets? The only thing with the manticore is it allows for MEQ armor saves. Granted it three shoots per!