2500 pt Tau 'Ard Boyz tourney list

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**ryanstartalker**

All right that's clearer...

Gone with another Devilfish? 2 9-FW squads footslogging? Now I am REALLY worrying about the speeder storm alphastrike Fling and me discussed over in another Tau post... Other than that concern how you expect two footslogging FW squad to keep walking, keep producing firepower and taking objectives at the same time...

Um I think tiberius183 takes XV8 command squad for those shiny HW fun stuff... His choice. Can't hurt his luck.

**lambadomy**

the FW squads won't be footslogging. They can't start in the pathfinder's transports, but they can get right in them first turn. The pathfinders are shooting heavy weapons, they typically don't need to get in their transports and move.

If I'm going second I just leave my FWs in reserve and keep the devilfish near the back line until they come into play and have them walk right in.

**ryanstartalker**

Um... May I ask how you infiltrate the Devilfish with a pathfinder squad in it to the midfield, disembark and still get them back and embark another FW squad, all in the first turn?

Yes the pathfinders are shooting heavy weapons, markerlights... Which means they are extremely important tactically and strategically... Combining with the fact they are closer to the enemy... Which means the enemy will go directly for them... Which means they NEED to get in their transports and relocate... And you said "sorry troops ETA not determined because Devilfish busy elsewhere" and order them to survive on their pulse carbine.

They better kill themselves that way.

**tiberius183**

If I take away one of the fish, that would free up 100 some odd pts. Thinking of either adding two more FWs to each squad (increasing them to 11), or, creating a small FW squad of 6 as a "stay behind" unit; give my crisis team leader a shield generator, and maxing out the seeker missiles on both my warfish and hammerhead (or, instead of adding more seekers, upgrade a shas'ui in each PF squad w/ a bonding knife)

Thoughts? Kinda leaning towards adding more FWs, add the shield generator, and do the shas'ui w/BK. What worries me about adding the shas'ui and BK is it might be a waste of points, since (if my opponent is smart/stupid), he's going to make wiping out my PFs a priority.

Thoughts?

**aromasin**

I don't THINK you need a second target lock on the body guard. This is also good if you remove it because you get wound allocation (if they have more than one wound

)

**tiberius183**

...that last post fell about 30 yards away from making any sense to me whatsoever.

Please tell me what Target Locks have to do with wound allocation.

Wait, nm, you're talking about wound allocation on the target they're shooting at. Got it.

Well, I only intend to split fire when fusion blasting multiple targets. makes the command squad more efficient tank busters.

**ryanstartalker**

Which Devilfish you want to take out? And which one you CAN take out? You already have one squad of FW footslogging, already enough for "stay behind". If you have the idea to maxing out the seeker missiles (which is great IMO not every army have a limitless range S8 AP3 missile that ignore all cover save and require no LOS and all those things markerlight can do...), it makes taking out Devilfish even more impossible. You cannot spare even a bit of mobility of Pathfinders because you need their markerlights to guide even more seeker missiles. It's all related.

Shield generator is great... Not as great as shield drones. And I don't think you have enough pts anyway, regarding the argument above.

Sometimes, you just need to think more about using XV8's flexible mobility given by its jet pack to their best, and depend less on all those fancy gadgets. It could go too far. Remember XV8 could gain you the initiative and put tons of damage on the enemy with their high-tech approach... But what eventually win you the game is always these FWs without so much bling-blings.

**tiberius183**

That one FW team wouldn't be footslogging; it can hop in to one of the pathfinder fish, just can't deploy in it. If anything it'd be delayed for the first turn.

**FlingitNow**

...that last post fell about 30 yards away from making any sense to me whatsoever.

Please tell me what Target Locks have to do with wound allocation.

Wait, nm, you're talking about wound allocation on the target they're shooting at.

I must admit your list is too hard to bother reading and trying to help with plus you seem to have plenty of helpers already.

However what the guy meant with wound allocation is if you remove a target lock from 1 guy he is no longer identically armed to the other guy so you can play shenanigans with wound allocation to ensure you take the least possible casualties and so you can spread the wounds through the squad before removing any models.

**ryanstartalker**

tiberius183 wrote:That one FW team wouldn't be footslogging; it can hop in to one of the pathfinder fish, just can't deploy in it. If anything it'd be delayed for the first turn.

My point exactly. First you took away the essential unit of Pathfinder's only protection - mobility away by doing this, and obviously inviting your opponent to attack these trouble makers. Second you waste one whole turn for these 9 FWs (1/3 of your objective taker and 1/8 of your firepower, if we may say?) just sitting around waiting for the ride doing nothing when other FW squads with Devilfish already formed gunlines behind the proper covers or high ground, firing or ready to fire.

Heck I am even thinking in Fling's alphastrike logic right now... With that these 9 FWs won't see the dawn of the 2nd turn...

**lambadomy**

ryan...the firewarriors don't need to start on the board. You can start anything in reserve. Since devilfish are so expensive for what they do, having less of them is a good thing.

If you're moving your pathfinders your opponent has already achieved his goal, preventing them from using markerlights. Every time you move them in a fish you flush two turns of markerlight use. Keep them back, protect them, and let them use their 36" range to their advantage. Why would you ever put them midfield? So more things can shoot them? in the front of a 12" deployment zone near the middle they can cover 80% of the board.

I still think that the best use of the devilfish points is two piranhas in a squad. They threaten AV 14, can act as charge blockers, and can turbo boost to contest objectives. The other option is more crisis suits, when in doubt get more guns. More firewarriors would be a huge waste, since they and their guns suck. If you can't control a couple objectives and then contest another with 5 troops and all the rest of the stuff a 6th troop isn't going to put you over the top.

**ryanstartalker**

I totally understand that. I start Devilfished FW in reserve a lot. But what you suggested is a non-Devilfished FW unit walk onto the board and into the Devilfish back waiting on the friendly table edge. I am not quite sure it's legal or not... Need to check the rulebook when I am back at home. Or maybe you manage to pull the disembarked Devilfish off the table back into the reserve and embark FWs in reserve? I am really confused about it...

Well I agree with you on the moving-prevention part, quite reasonable... But it seems we have different way using Pathfinders... I always use their scout rule to deploy them and their devilfish in the midfield where cover is intensive and deal with the advancing enemy mech-infantry and armor from side and rear armor. IMO getting these Devilfish out there back home is pretty pain in the neck,,, Maybe I need to change the way I used it,,,

I would always choose more XV8s by the way... Never tried piranhas so don't have a say on that...

**lambadomy**

It is perfectly legal - 5th edition did away with the "you can only use your own transport" rules for dedicated transports. So long as you finish your move within 2" of the hatch...jump on in!

There are plenty of times that having the pathfinders forward is a fine idea, especially if the opponent has refused a flank or there are nice ruins they can get into/on top of. But Devilfish move 12" a turn. Even if you put them 12" forward, and then moved them 12" forward and dumped out the pathfinders, they still have two movement phases to get back near the board edge, so that should be no problem.

**FlingitNow**

Yeah you can walk the FWs on and straight into a Devilfish as long as it has an access point within 8" of the board edge (if you want to be cheesy 6" to be safe).

Most people just keep their pathfinders in back field high up somewhere preferably and keep them static all game, then the fish is free to be used elsewhere. The scout ability is basically redundant on them.

Which is why I'm for a change to normal MLs being 18" assault 1 so that our scouts are actually that and used as scouts rather than used as the last line of defence as they currently are.

Piranha's are awesome. A unit of 3 with TA FB amd flechettes can be a real pain and a nasty surprise if you opponent assaults them

. Great for late game objective contesting, blocking Land raiders and other transports and having the fusion blasters for back up tank busting in a pinch (not to mention the gun drones for general annoyance).

**ryanstartalker**

@lambadomy: Sounds good... I probably would try that next time, moving the deep-in-line Devilfish out and embark the reserved FW that way.
Yeah my Pathfinders work pretty good that way for some time and I like it when I can slam the AP3 seekerMs into the rear armor of VeneDread and dedicated transport.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Fling: Question: Isn't Piranha is a bit too light to block LR?

**FlingitNow**

@ Fling: Question: Isn't Piranha is a bit too light to block LR?

You block it's movement put 3 Piranhas in front of it and it either has to stay still for a turn shooting them out of the way or drive round them. Either way it will be at least a turn longer before it's deadly contents reach your lines, which is always worth it.

**tiberius183**

You block it's movement put 3 Piranhas in front of it and it either has to stay still for a turn shooting them out of the way or drive round them. Either way it will be at least a turn longer before it's deadly contents reach your lines, which is always worth it.

That's a pretty expensive distraction at 180 pts stock...

**ryanstartalker**

@Fling: Do you know how much Piranha costs?

@tiberius183: Same feeling...

**tiberius183**

I mean, its a sound tactic, but why waste the points when you can just as easily blow up the LR with a squad of broadsides, or slice it open with Farsight and have him dine on the termies inside.

**ryanstartalker**

Right.

**H3ct0r**

Piranha are great at this because they take more firepower to get rid of than the raider has, if they diddn't turbo boost have a greater chance at popping the raider than 3 broadsides and still block it. If you markerlight the raider then they have a good chance at popping it (~73% chance). Plus free drones woot

**lambadomy**

It isn't just the land raider that they block, it's any non-jump assault unit. You don't need three, two will do (though three is nice of course). Piranhas fill the following gaps in the Tau army:

Fast fusion blasters (crisis suits are ok but much easier to kill and just as expensive)

late game objective contesters

assault/movement blockers to protect your fragile troops (an empty devilfish can also do this but it doesn't have fusion and can't move 24")

With flechette launchers, and 2+ piranhas, they're also a potential nasty surprise depending on how you interpret their rules.

at 2000 points, I run two in a single squad with fusion/TA. At 2500, I'd try to run a squad of three, but two will do.

**tiberius183**

Went up against 'Nids yesterday with my mk. 3 list and fought to a draw.

Which, when it comes to Tau vs. 'Nids, counts as a victory, IMO.

**H3ct0r**

It isn't just the land raider that they block, it's any non-jump assault unit. You don't need three, two will do (though three is nice of course). Piranhas fill the following gaps in the Tau army:

Fast fusion blasters (crisis suits are ok but much easier to kill and just as expensive)

late game objective contesters

assault/movement blockers to protect your fragile troops (an empty devilfish can also do this but it doesn't have fusion and can't move 24")

In fact, I use 5 in a squadron for just this reason. Each with a fusion Blaster and flachette dischargers and three target locks/disruption pods thrown in. They protect the majority of my army from assault and provide cover for crisis suits etc.. along with providing some mean anti tank. Soaks up a huge amount of firepower and is largely immune to assault.

**tiberius183**

Latest playtest: Smurfs.

Final score: 9-4 (me).

So far, I've playtested my 'Ard Boyz build three times (first one was my mk 2 list, and it was against Orks, so I may have to go against Orks once more with my current build), and I've won two, and one was a draw (against 'Nids). I think my list is solid, and no further modifications are necessary.

FYI: I'm on list build 3.5, only difference from 3.0 is I got rid of a fish, and added more 2 more FWs to each squad, added more seeker missiles, and upgraded a Pathfinder in each PF squad to a Shas'ui and gave them target locks and bonding knives.

**ChocolateGork**

ha my 1750 point list has 18 markerlights

**tiberius183**

Well, aren't you Mr. Fancy Pants...

Hey, 10 worked for me. I ain't complaining.

**ChocolateGork**

But i have thirty warriors so yeah but at bs 5 they rock the house.

only 4 crisis and 2 bsides

**tiberius183**

That's nice.

*Pats ChocolateGork on the head*

**jaweyermuller**

I like the Crisis Suit squad list a lot. I used to play that list all the time a few years ago before I sold my Tau. Playing the list in 5th ed means you should make the squad members as different as possible. I am a fan of farsight though I know he doesn't get a lot of love on Dakka. Luckily the Ard Boyz is 2500 points which means you can take him with a full bodyguard unit with out feeling like he is too point heavy. Something to keep in mind is you need to try the list out. Play testing your Ard Boyz list is really important, the guy Overwatch makes a good case for it in this article. Capture and Control: Preparing for 'Ard Boyz