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Black Blow Fly wrote:You roll for all of them.

You roll for the Storm Raven, everyone else is along for the ride. Otherwise, IG Vets can't outflank in a valk/vendetta. This isn't like previous editions, where you rolled for everyone separately and IF they all showed up on the same round, they could hitch a ride.

What I meant was one roll determines if the SR, jump infantry, IC & dread all arrive... And yeah you are rolling for the SR, they all arrive together.

G


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gwar! wrote:

Black Blow Fly wrote:Gwar what about my question regarding DoA and a deepstriking Storm Raven?

Thanks!
G

BA.23.04 – Q: Does a Transport Vehicle that arrives from Reserves via “Deep Strike” with a unit with the “Descent of Angels” embarked upon it benefit from the “Descent of Angels” special rule?
A: No. Only units that are Deep Striking themselves and have the “Descent of Angels” Special Rule benefit. [Clarification]
• It can, however, be interpreted that the transport does benefit from the “Descent of Angels” special rule despite not having it itself.

The Storm Raven is arriving from Deep Strike, and does not itself possess a jump pack, so it scatters the usual 2d6".

That is a RAI interpretation.

G

Please quote the Descent of Angels rule in its entirety, so we can see.

Descent of Angels:

"A Blood Angels unit with this special rule can reroll failed reserve rolls if arriving by Deep Strike. Also, due to the precision of their descent, it scatters d6" less (normally d6" rather than 2d6"). Other units in the Blood Angels army that can arrive by Deep Strike do so using the normal rules."

Selective reading will make people miss the last sentence because they want the whole army to benefit from this.

A Blood Angels unit with this special rule can re-roll failed reserve rolls if arriving by Deep Strike. Also, due to the precision of their descent, it scatters D6" less (normally D6" rather than 2D6").

Other units in the Blood Angels army that can arrive by Deep Strike do so using the normal rules.

Another clarification to your Storm Raven first turn barrage.

You don't fire one weapon, see what the results are and then move on to declare targets for the next weapon (which might not be how you played it, but it is how you reported it).

All of a unit's shots are declared and carried out at the same time. A player can't see how his missile shots turned out before deciding where his las-cannon shots will be fired.

A fast vehicle can move at combat speed and fire all it's weapons Therion.

...but you moved faster than combat speed and therefore cheated your opponent. Secondly, it's pretty much crystal clear that Stormravens dont benefit from DoA. I'm even more certain that this discussion belongs to another forum.

Mannahnin wrote:The Storm Raven is arriving from Deep Strike, and does not itself possess a jump pack, so it scatters the usual 2d6".

Agreed. The unit inside is just coming along for the ride. Just like a tactical squad in a drop pod or vets in a valk. The unit inside the Raven isn't arriving by Deepstike, the transport is. What's inside has no bearing on the transport, otherwise a tac squad in a drop pod couldn't deep strike and vets in a valk couldn't outflank or make scout moves.

I declared all my targets prior to shooting any weapons. Truly it's amazing how people will just search for possible mistakes to report rather than enjoy a batrep.

G

WHy in the blazes didn't the IG player Reserve up?

Vendettas should never begin game on the board if they are gong second, unless you are playing an army with no long range fire power.

Nice bat rep though, BBF.

It was his first game versus hte new BA. we both agreed afterwards he should have held his gunships in reserve. I was playing a completely proxied army so I could test drive my list. It's not like we were playing in a tournament final round for best overall. We had a good time and could drink more beer since it was a quick game. I am really liking my list a lot and hope to soon get in a few more games vs. Nidz & SW when I get back home.

G

Black Blow Fly wrote:I declared all my targets prior to shooting any weapons. Truly it's amazing how people will just search for possible mistakes to report rather than enjoy a batrep.

G

We are not searching for mistakes, they are obvious. The important part is knowing you understand the mistakes so you do not continue to play the codex wrong.

Just an odd question stemming from the deployment of Jump Pack equipped troops from within the Storm Raven.

Is it now possible for "Jump Infantry" to embark upon transport?

I thought that only "Infantry" could embark upon transports.

Isn't that the reason behind the wording for the Dedicated Transport options for assault squads stipulating that they remove their Jump Packs?

BloodAngel03 wrote:Just an odd question stemming from the deployment of Jump Pack equipped troops from within the Storm Raven.

Is it now possible for "Jump Infantry" to embark upon transport?

I thought that only "Infantry" could embark upon transports.

Isn't that the reason behind the wording for the Dedicated Transport options for assault squads stipulating that they remove their Jump Packs?

In the codex, the Storm Raven's entry explicitly allows jump infantry to be embarked.

And that, my friends, is why you wait to read the codex before commenting

The Stormraven has a special rule allowing Jump Infantry to embark upon it.

agnosto wrote:In the codex, the Storm Raven's entry explicitly allows jump infantry to be embarked.

Thanks, Agnosto. I've had the new codex since Saturday and haven't looked *that* hard at the Storm Raven rules, so I overlooked the specific rule.

I really didn't think G would suffer that kind of rules lapse!

Thanks for the BatRep, G - you're giving me some wicked ideas for organization and tactics :-)

Hey you are most welcome & that is mainly why I posted it up. Thanks!

: )

G

Black Blow Fly wrote:According to hte DoA special rule if you DS a Storm Raven with jump infantry onboard it will only scatter 1d6

By this logic, my black templars assault terminators could allow their land raider transport to arrive via teleport.

Whatever dude.

G

Black Blow Fly wrote:I declared all my targets prior to shooting any weapons. Truly it's amazing how people will just search for possible mistakes to report rather than enjoy a batrep.

G

And even Mod's are contributing to the derailment of this thread and bringing it off topic. Amazing. This is hardly a tournament game, it was a friendly game with two people trying to familiarize themselves with the new rules. Besides, the two "mistakes" are hardly game breaking in this context anyway.

Reecius wrote:WHy in the blazes didn't the IG player Reserve up?

Vendettas should never begin game on the board if they are gong second, unless you are playing an army with no long range fire power.

Nice bat rep though, BBF.

Agreed, those Vendettas should most certainly have started in reserve. GBF, you said it yourself, if the IG went first you would have gone in reserve. I wonder why your opponent didn't.

hivefleetmonolith wrote:

Black Blow Fly wrote:According to hte DoA special rule if you DS a Storm Raven with jump infantry onboard it will only scatter 1d6

By this logic, my black templars assault terminators could allow their land raider transport to arrive via teleport.

This is what we did when the local BA bandwagoner brought this nonsense up. We allowed his opponents Rhinos to get the 5+ invulnerable saves for having an icon of Tzeench on board.

Then the IG player cheerfully said he was going to give all his vet squads stealth so his vehicles can benefit from it. Good times.

whitedragon wrote:And even Mod's are contributing to the derailment of this thread and bringing it off topic. Amazing. This is hardly a tournament game, it was a friendly game with two people trying to familiarize themselves with the new rules. Besides, the two "mistakes" are hardly game breaking in this context anyway.

BBF posted a report titled “1st game with BA – Alpha Striking IG Mech.” In this report, the IG player made an absolutely terrible/complete rookie deployment error, allowing BBF to wreck the IG player’s Vendettas before they ever got to move. This initial sequence of events compounded until the IG player conceded on turn 2. BBF then summarized the report by saying that he thought the results speak for themselves. How, exactly? The implication is that BA can be expected to roll over the feared Mech IG, and maybe that’s true- if and when the IG are played very badly.

One thing that is (IMO) very much on-topic when someone posts a report with a new book is to discuss any rules issues/questions/misplays that we spot or THINK we spot. This helps us all learn the rules better. The folks who did not realize that jump infantry can ride in a Storm Raven have now learned that fact, and are more likely to remember it. And BBF, now that the rule has been questioned and quoted, will hopefully remember that the Storm Raven itself cannot benefit from the Descent of Angels rule possessed by another unit which is transported within. Everyone wins.

Yeah I think it was a good thing for BBF to do this as like manny said it helps us to understand implications and possible errors that might crop up.

Good job BBF!

GG

edit....holy cow m y typos are getting worse!!

Thanks Grog!

In my opinion the results do speak for themselves. Certainly my friend made a bad decision regarding his gunships, which I simply chalk up to his ignorance of what the Stormraven brings to the table. I hope that no one here is operating under the false assumption that I deep striked my gunships rolling 1d6 for scatter. In fact both ravens started the game deployed on the table. I tend to take a conservative approach to interpreting the rules, but I am always open to discussion. This a great example illustrating that simply following RAW does not necessarily always produce the intended results & to me that is very interesting... Going back and reading it again the comment regarding BT termies deep striking in their dedicated LRC is a very good counter point.

G