Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
For a man who doesn't understand the contents of it you sure love it.
See what I did there?
I know you didn't read the bill in it's entirety so you have less leg to stand on in appraisal of it than I do in rebelling against it.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
The bill is utter tripe. It will make the poor poorer and the rich a little bit poorer but they'll still be rich.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
Fateweaver wrote:
I know you didn't read the bill in it's entirety so you have less leg to stand on in appraisal of it than I do in rebelling against it.
No, that's false. Even in judging something negatively you are appraising that thing. If you do not know the nature of that thing, then your opinion with respect to it is worthless; whether positive or negative.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
The bill is utter tripe. It will make the poor poorer and the rich a little bit poorer but they'll still be rich.
So, let's get this straight.
The ability to obtain health insurance in spite of existing conditions is "tripe"?
Forget the whole "hurr but everyone has to have it!" bit. Really. That part is stupid in any form as an argument, as everyone should have health insurance to begin with.
Forget the fact that insurance should ALWAYS be an option.
Forget the fact that Billions of Dollars will go into providing health care coverage for lard ass who smokes 2 packs a day, eats McD's 3 times a day and sits at home drinking a case of beer every night and that the insurance companies HAVE to cover his sorry ass if he suffers physical ills from his lifestyle?
I shouldn't HAVE to be forced to have health insurance. It should be an option, whether or not I make $100 a month or $10,000 per month.
To Dogma: If Shuma is allowed to shout me down for forming an opinion on the fact I'm not going to read all 2700 pages of the bill when I know, he in fact did not do the same, than I'm going to call him out too. Just because he is college edumacated (see what I did there?)and leans so far left he's likely to tip over and hurt himself doesn't make his opinion of the bill or his opinion of my opinion any more right.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
To Dogma: If Shuma is allowed to shout me down for forming an opinion on the fact I'm not going to read all 2700 pages of the bill when I know, he in fact did not do the same, than I'm going to call him out too. Just because he is college edumacated (see what I did there?)and leans so far left he's likely to tip over and hurt himself doesn't make his opinion of the bill or his opinion of my opinion any more right.
Yes, but at least I've read a considerable amount about it, and I've read many of the pertinent parts within the bill. You don't seem to know anything about it. you're just quoting gak you hear on tv, thats all you ever do. All the resources to learn about what you're speaking are at your fingertips, it's what I did. Graphic arts don't really have a high emphasis on healthcare politics, so please when you somehow act like i'm below you because I know significantly more try and remember that I know that much more because I put the effort in to learn it. Not because I'm college edumacated.
----------------
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
Obama and Pelosi are on a ship in the middle of the ocean and it starts to sink. Who is saved?
America.
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
* Promise Kept 102
* Compromise 35
* Promise Broken 19
* Stalled 85
* In the Works 262
* Not yet rated 2
"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..." Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe.
Fateweaver wrote:Forget the fact that insurance should ALWAYS be an option.
Forget the fact that Billions of Dollars will go into providing health care coverage for lard ass who smokes 2 packs a day, eats McD's 3 times a day and sits at home drinking a case of beer every night and that the insurance companies HAVE to cover his sorry ass if he suffers physical ills from his lifestyle?
I shouldn't HAVE to be forced to have health insurance. It should be an option, whether or not I make $100 a month or $10,000 per month.
To Dogma: If Shuma is allowed to shout me down for forming an opinion on the fact I'm not going to read all 2700 pages of the bill when I know, he in fact did not do the same, than I'm going to call him out too. Just because he is college edumacated (see what I did there?)and leans so far left he's likely to tip over and hurt himself doesn't make his opinion of the bill or his opinion of my opinion any more right.
Being a fatass due to eating junk food isn't an "existing condition", Fate.
Considerable amount would be what? 10 pages? 100 pages? 1,000 pages? Do you have inside connections that I don't because from what I recall the entire thing was NEVER posted publicly anywhere. Another lie on Obama's part. "Every bill that comes to my desk will be put up online for 5 days before I sign it." Haha. The bill was so secretly passed that I bet Obama didn't even know what he was signing when he signed it.
I also don't watch news on tv so once again, get your facts straight before assuming things. I read and saw a few clauses and provisions that are in it and what I read was utter BS.
No denial based on pre-existing conditions. Okay, so you have a history of stroke because you weigh 800 pounds, eat McD's 3 days a week and have lung cancer because you smoke 3 packs a day and the insurance companies should HAVE to provide insurance for you? How is that sensible?
I have no kids but I must buy extra pediatric care when, in 2014, i'm forced to buy insurance for myself. Why must I pay for something I'll never use? That's like telling me I must buy a trailer hitch for my car even though I don't own any type of trailer. Again, how sensible is that?
I MUST buy health insurance? What if I want to take the personal risk of breaking my arm and having to foot the entire bill myself? That should be MY choice.
Next you will say that the seat belt and helmet laws are fair because they not only protect you but your loved ones.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
Actually, they do. I remember reading a story six or seven years back about an accident in Florida where the driver was essentially decapitated by their seatbeltless passenger in the back seat as they were thrown into the front of the cabin.
Being a fatass due to eating junk food isn't an "existing condition", Fate.
Shh, he's never let reality sway him from a pre-formed opinion before.
A pre-existing condition is something like the type I diabetes I acquired following an auto-immune disorder, and that insurance companies have been using to feth my family over ever since I was six.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/11 21:30:38
"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..." Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe.
Lung cancer is a pre-existing condition caused by smoking.
By the RAW of the bill insurance companies will have to provide insurance to chronic smokers who have lung cancer because of it.
A simple solution to your personal insurance problem Bookwrack. Change companies. My dad has diabetes and he's had no problem getting health insurance. It's not hard to do your own homework and find insurance that works for you, even with pre-existing conditions.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
Obama reminds me of the line from Macbeth, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." With the teleprompter, he can be a very effective speaker. On the spot, he's almost as bad as Bush. I think he would've been better off to be chair of the DNC or in some other fundraising/support capacity than to be President. He's an amatuer in Washington and it shows. He was a fresh face with a hip marketing campaign and a lot of people threw their support behind him without knowing anything about him. The really sad thing is I think he does, or rather, did have the potential to be a true agent for change in Washington, but he was rushed into running for the Presidency. Now, he's just another talking head on television (with his endless string of speeches and interviews) that people tune out.
One thing I can give Clinton credit for is it never took him 17 minutes to answer a simple yes/no question.
He turns every question into a SoTU address and nobody wants to sit through 15+ minutes of rhetoric when a simple yes/no that would take all of 2 seconds to say would suffice.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
Fateweaver wrote:It's not hard to do your own homework and find insurance that works for you, even with pre-existing conditions.
Aww, aren't you cute, trying to turn it around on me? Obviously the issue is that I have never made any effort on my own behalf to fix this.
"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..." Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe.
I am just saying that there are options for people with conditions. Obamacare isn't going to change what's already there, just make insurance companies cover more people thereby raising premiums for everybody.
Go ahead and assume it's a personal attack. It wasn't but who am I to care ?
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
Fateweaver wrote:
To Dogma: If Shuma is allowed to shout me down for forming an opinion on the fact I'm not going to read all 2700 pages of the bill when I know, he in fact did not do the same, than I'm going to call him out too.
But you don't know that. You might believe that, but you don't know it. Unless Shuma has stated that he hasn't read the bill, in which case you do know it, at least for the purposes of debate.
Fateweaver wrote:
Just because he is college edumacated (see what I did there?)
Why do you always bring up collegiate education?
Fateweaver wrote:
and leans so far left he's likely to tip over and hurt himself doesn't make his opinion of the bill or his opinion of my opinion any more right.
No, but if he has read the bill, and you have not, then his opinion on the content of the bill is more valuable than yours.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Fateweaver wrote:
Just because he is college edumacated (see what I did there?)
Why do you always bring up collegiate education?
I'd suggest:
Overt defensive aggression brought about by his own inferiority complex concerning his education and ability to disseminate information. It's deployed pre-emptively to masquerade as self-deprecation and facilitate his position as a 'Joe the Plumber' type character, speaking on behalf of the 'decent, regular folks' (ie segregation from those nasty people with an education as education is a thing to be feared).
He can't prove he read the bill any more than I can.
So I'll have to take his word he read it and reading MOST of something doesn't give the entire picture.
If you read 2rd's of Moby Dick you won't know the entirety of what happens. You can make assumptions based on what you've read but assumptions based on parts of a document won't tell you the whole story (not unless the last 1/3rd of it is just the author praising himself.
From what Shuma has read he says it's a good bill. From what I've read I think it's crap and would think it crap had Bush or Bush Sr. passed it. Shuma admits to not reading the entire thing so he can only base his opinion on what he's read, the same I am doing. Until he reads the entire thing (and he can't prove on the internet he has or ever will be able to prove it) his opinion bears no more weight than mine.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
dogma wrote:
Fateweaver wrote:
Just because he is college edumacated (see what I did there?)
Why do you always bring up collegiate education?
I'd suggest:
Overt defensive aggression brought about by his own inferiority complex concerning his education and ability to disseminate information. It's deployed pre-emptively to masquerade as self-deprecation and facilitate his position as a 'Joe the Plumber' type character, speaking on behalf of the 'decent, regular folks' (ie segregation from those nasty people with an education as education is a thing to be feared).
But that's just a guess.
Nope, don't have an inferiority complex. I brought up Shuma's education because he and a certain other poster like to wave it in peoples faces they are college educated. I don't hate all collegiates, most of my friends are college grads or will be graduating shortly.
Oh, and thanks to the Liberals tuition has jacked up in cost considerably but that discussion is for another place.
This threads asks opinions of Obama. I'm as entitled to post here as the next guy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/11 22:43:55
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
From what Shuma has read he says it's a good bill. From what I've read I think it's crap and would think it crap had Bush or Bush Sr. passed it. Shuma admits to not reading the entire thing so he can only base his opinion on what he's read, the same I am doing. Until he reads the entire thing (and he can't prove on the internet he has or ever will be able to prove it) his opinion bears no more weight than mine.
The difference (Besides the fact that I've clearly read significantly more if it than the (probably none) you have) is that I've shown repeatedly that I have vastly superior judgement in matters pertaining to economics, sociopolitical, and law than you do.
I brought up Shuma's education because he and a certain other poster like to wave it in peoples faces they are college educated.
I only keep bringing it up because you literally talk about me being in college in every thread we're on opposing sides. I've never brought it up casually to state that I'm more intelligent than another poster. Ever. I only talk about it when you, and you alone bring it up. Are you seriously that dense?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/04/11 22:46:15
----------------
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
From what Shuma has read he says it's a good bill. From what I've read I think it's crap and would think it crap had Bush or Bush Sr. passed it. Shuma admits to not reading the entire thing so he can only base his opinion on what he's read, the same I am doing. Until he reads the entire thing (and he can't prove on the internet he has or ever will be able to prove it) his opinion bears no more weight than mine.
The difference (Besides the fact that I've clearly read significantly more if it than the (probably none) you have) is that I've shown repeatedly that I have vastly superior judgement in matters pertaining to economics, sociopolitical, and law than you do.
I brought up Shuma's education because he and a certain other poster like to wave it in peoples faces they are college educated.
I only keep bringing it up because you literally talk about me being in college in every thread we're on opposing sides. I've never brought it up casually to state that I'm more intelligent than another poster. Ever. I only talk about it when you, and you alone bring it up. Are you seriously that dense?
That makes you special how?
I have vastly superior judgement in guns and computers than you do.
You study economics and law and socio-politics. Good on you.
You attack everything I say, I'm doing the same to you. Don't like it, report me or grow a pair.
I'm sure you haven't read enough of the bill to make a sound decision about it. You can tell me you have but I don't or can't know it's true, just as you assume I haven't read as much, if any, of it as you have.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
I have vastly superior judgement in guns and computers than you do.
You study economics and law and socio-politics. Good on you.
Well, were discussing something directly related to socio politics and economics.
You attack everything I say, I'm doing the same to you. Don't like it, report me or grow a pair.
Yes, but I attack the things you say because the things you say are either dumb and don't make any sense or they are just thinly veiled troll posts because you can't be bothered to actually know enough to state an opinion on the topic at hand. You attack the things that I say because you can't defend your own posts without attacking others because you don't understand your own opinions or any of the things you base them on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/11 23:12:26
----------------
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
Fateweaver wrote:
Nope, don't have an inferiority complex. I brought up Shuma's education because he and a certain other poster like to wave it in peoples faces they are college educated.
Before you brought it up, no one in this thread used the words 'education' or 'college' even once. The closest reference to either concept was Ahtman's comment with respect to Obama's CV.
To wit, Shuma has only brought up his own education when questioned about his age, or education.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Even though I understand Dakkas unwritten policy of not taking sides, this same old attack against Shuma is getting awfully stale.
I can see a very monotonous narrative coming from FW, and Shuma simply standing up for himself, is not grounds for him being an equal part of the problem IMHO.
As for Obama, I really have an awful lot of respect for the guy at this point, and even though he still has an enormous amount of work to do, I have a feeling I will be voting for him, come the next election.
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
Obviously the issue is that I have never made any effort on my own behalf to fix this.
