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Nurglitch wrote:My only suggestion is for your partner to play games using proxies while she works out how she wants to play...

I second that. Proxies are not very sexy, but they are the best to find out what fits your style. For example, I like shrike with sword/whip, and after couple games using the proxies, I decided to make the real model.

Out of the whole Tyranid codex, just about every unit is useful in some degree except "Old One Eye."

Old One Eye really needs to be about 200 pts. I would "maybe consider" taking him at that point. Where he's at now is just slowed.

Tyrannofexes can be fine. Worried about their BS 3? Use the acid spray. Then you are firing 2 templates and a pie plate while keeping costs as low as possible. The only shot that BS matters for is the pie plate, but cmon... it's a pie plate... it will hit something... That is a scary scary beast to fight against if you are in huddling in cover. Plus, he's wicked hard to down anyways.

Then you can focus other units on going Anti-armor. Zoanthropes, Hive Guard, various units with rending, Flyrants, etc. Don't be so focused on using the Tyrannofex as solely anti-tank. He fills a very multipurpose role with a rupture cannon. I'd prefer to let the anti-armor specific units take on the armor. Then you can use the Tyrannofex very aggressively and go infantry hunting to remove units from capping points.

Contrary to previous responses, the biovore is also a very solid choice. Overpowered? Not at all. Amazing for it's point cost? Meh. Does he do his job? Yes. Multiple pie plates on units each turn without needing LOS is good. Especially for a unit that can constantly move each turn and still keep dropping them.

Trygon tunnel rule is almost worthless. You don't buy the Trygon for this. You can not rely on this at all. It's a guessing game if you can use it.

Harpies can be good. They are long range support with pretty decent CC if they need to swoop in and support there.

Devourer gants with groups of 30? Really? You are going to drop 300 points on that unit? I'm planning on using some, but I'm putting 10 in a spore and using them as mobile anti-infantry where I need it.

Lictors VS Deathleaper: Deathleaper has survivability when he DS in. Lictors really don't have that much. You have a 3+ in cover but at T4, they are hurting. Deathleaper at least is almost guaranteed safe from ranged and is guaranteed first strikes in cover if they assault.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I know she's a fan of the trygon, so it's likely to make an appearance. She chose tyranids due to her love of the Aliens H R Giger monster.

That is the main reason I play them as well.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Are Flyrants still an option? What about dakkafexes (apologies if either has been scrapped from the codex, I don't have one atm).

You can still use Flyrants, but they are sliding into the uncompetitive bucket due to the silly price tag on wings and only having a 3+ save (no invulnerable).

Dakkafexes also suffer due to the cost. Not as bad as a Flyrant but Fex's have been redesigned to be melee monsters. Also if they are not near synapse and fail the leadership test they will charge the enemy without shooting. You will be paying about 200 points for a dakkafex.
190 Points Carnifex with 2x Twin-Linked Brain-leach Devourers
195 Points Carnifex with Bio-plasma, Twin-Linked Brain-leach Devourer.

Tyranids are all about unit synergy. You have little bugs that can eat infantry but can not hurt armour. You have big bugs that rip armour apart but can not kill hordes. Therefore a balance is needed between the two for a successful army.

and suggesting Tyrants should not take Heavy Venom Cannons, considering that anti-tank units are at a premium in the Tyranid Codex?

I would advise you stop giving advice. I shall write up a more in-depth analysis as I go along.

Im sorry, but i never really thought a S9 weapon that is allready at -1 on damage is much good for tank hunting.
Against a land raider your glancing on a 5 (at -3 on damage) and getting pens on a 6.
Even then, you need to roll a 6 again to finish it off.

So yes, they arent for tank hunting.
I rather let thropes or doom handle tanks at range, while TMC work on them in CC.

If its only a basic transport (AV11) your glancing on a 2 and pen on a 3, then still need a 6 to finish it.

Compared to an impaler cannon being 1 worse on each roll, but 2 shots, without LOS and finishing it on a 5-6.

I wont even bother comparing a thrope to that, S10, AP1 lance ...... Enough said.




With the tyrannofex you have a giant beast that quickly gets shot at / ignored, depending on what else you have taken.
On average it will hit with a single shot per turn from its rupture cannon, but do better than the venom cannon.

Now why pay 265 points for something like that? its a 1 trick pony model that once its done its job (if it ever does) its left shooting infanty to no avail.
With AP4 it wont be taking away saves from anything worth shooting at.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Now why pay 265 points for something like that? its a 1 trick pony model that once its done its job (if it ever does) its left shooting infanty to no avail.
With AP4 it wont be taking away saves from anything worth shooting at.

Different Force Organization slots for one thing. You do notice how Hive Guard and Zoanthropes compete with one another. If you want your army to be competitive you should have more than 3 AT elements (and calling the Doom anti-tank is frankly silly); 4-5 should be the minimum ideal amount. The Tyrannofex is inefficient with only a single hit, this is true, but it does provide range (do notice the short range on nearly everything), and you don't *need* to destroy vehicles in several cases; a Land Raider Immobilized in it's deployment zone is good as dead for example. And if your opponent doesn't bring mass vehicles, it's not like you've still got a mini-banewolf flamer, and large blast, right?

Here's my 2.5k for reference:

HQ:
270 points: Hive Tyrant with Heavy Venom Cannon, Bonesword and Lash Whip, Paroxysm and Psychic Scream
-Tyrant Guard with Bonesword: 270 points.
270 points: Hive Tyrant with Heavy Venom Cannon, Bonesword and Lash Whip, Paroxysm and Psychic Scream
-Tyrant Guard with Bonesword: 270 points.

Elites:
150 points: 3 Hive Guard x3.
150 points: 3 Hive Guard x3.
150 points: 3 Hive Guard x3.

Troops:
50 points: 10 Termagants.
50 points: 10 Termagants.
50 points: 10 Termagants.
185 points: Tervigon, Toxin Sacs, Onslaught, Cluster Spines.
185 points: Tervigon, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst, Cluster Spines.
195 points: Tervigon, Toxin Sacs, Onslaught, Cluster Spines, Adrenal Glands.

Heavy Support:
265 points: Tyrannofex w/Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines, Dessicator Larvae.
265 points: Tyrannofex w/Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines, Dessicator Larvae.
265 points: Tyrannofex w/Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines, Dessicator Larvae.

Now why pay 265 points for something like that? its a 1 trick pony model that once its done its job (if it ever does) its left shooting infanty to no avail.
With AP4 it wont be taking away saves from anything worth shooting at.

Because I consider 2 S10 shots, a pie plate, and a flame template that always wounds on 2+ to be quite effective at killing foot infantry. Nothing in the Nid list has anything less than AP4 except the Zoanthrope and bio plasma so your entire argument is flawed. The flame template does actually negate cover saves that people always complain hurt nids.

Hoodwink, then its a matter of opinion to be honest.
And how does nothing lower than AP4 flaw my entire argument?
I rather kit out a list with dedicated rolls, rather than having something swapping when it gets rushed?

Its also easy to pin down in combat due to low attacks.
Throw 30 gretchin at it, and even if you hit and wound with all attacks, your still only killing 3 per turn.
The model if then unable to do anything for the rest of the game unless you drag an offensive unit over to help it.

With single role units you know that people will work on thier weakness.
So things like keeping thropes out of combat and keeping lictors in terrain as much as possible are a must.
Alot of people see the tyrano's stats and weapon and assume its a winner.
Not so much when its tied up.

also, when going against a fast moving army that pie plate means little when you cant shoot into combat, so again, its left with only CC as an option, and its hardly a beast in combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

(and calling the Doom anti-tank is frankly silly)

Its pretty much anti-everything depending on timing.
Marine armies and the likes tend to keep close knit when fighting nids and just sit back and shoot.
When every unit near it starts losing a fair few wounds a turn thats nice damage, when it drop a pie plate at S10 and AP1 thats even better.

Also, ive never relied on just that on its own, i tend to take a mix of the following:

3 bug hive units
3 bug thrope units
Doom
trygon (generally 2 for the tunnels)
fex's - may have been nerfed by points cost, but still work fine.


Also, keep in mind your taking 3 of them to make sure they are effective.
Now drop that list down to 1k and 1.5k.
At lower points games throwing away 750 on 3 shooting bugs isnt worth it.

MagicJuggler wrote:

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Now why pay 265 points for something like that? its a 1 trick pony model that once its done its job (if it ever does) its left shooting infanty to no avail.
With AP4 it wont be taking away saves from anything worth shooting at.

Different Force Organization slots for one thing. You do notice how Hive Guard and Zoanthropes compete with one another. If you want your army to be competitive you should have more than 3 AT elements (and calling the Doom anti-tank is frankly silly); 4-5 should be the minimum ideal amount. The Tyrannofex is inefficient with only a single hit, this is true, but it does provide range (do notice the short range on nearly everything), and you don't *need* to destroy vehicles in several cases; a Land Raider Immobilized in it's deployment zone is good as dead for example. And if your opponent doesn't bring mass vehicles, it's not like you've still got a mini-banewolf flamer, and large blast, right?

Here's my 2.5k for reference:

HQ:
270 points: Hive Tyrant with Heavy Venom Cannon, Bonesword and Lash Whip, Paroxysm and Psychic Scream
-Tyrant Guard with Bonesword: 270 points.
270 points: Hive Tyrant with Heavy Venom Cannon, Bonesword and Lash Whip, Paroxysm and Psychic Scream
-Tyrant Guard with Bonesword: 270 points.

Elites:
150 points: 3 Hive Guard x3.
150 points: 3 Hive Guard x3.
150 points: 3 Hive Guard x3.

Troops:
50 points: 10 Termagants.
50 points: 10 Termagants.
50 points: 10 Termagants.
185 points: Tervigon, Toxin Sacs, Onslaught, Cluster Spines.
185 points: Tervigon, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst, Cluster Spines.
195 points: Tervigon, Toxin Sacs, Onslaught, Cluster Spines, Adrenal Glands.

Heavy Support:
265 points: Tyrannofex w/Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines, Dessicator Larvae.
265 points: Tyrannofex w/Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines, Dessicator Larvae.
265 points: Tyrannofex w/Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines, Dessicator Larvae.

Why don't people listen to this guy more? He knows what he's saying here...and everywhere else I see him post.

The 2.5k list looks competitive no doubt, but I bet it would be very boring to play. You can see exactly how it works by just looking at it.

I do agree however that hive guard and tyrannofexes make a good combo. If you mixed it to zoanthropes combining with the tyrannofexes you have spent a few more points for overkill. Not really necessary.

I like to mix it up with my lists. Here's my "competitive" 1.5k list

Tyrant
wings
Hive commander
scything talons x2
paroxysm
life drain (or whatever it's called)

Doom of Malantai in a spod
3 zoanthropes in a spod
10 ymgarl genestealers
1 tervigon w/ crushing claws and catalyst
13 gaunts
2 trygons

It's a typical drop list but it's a hell of a lot of fun to play. Even more so when things don't go as planned.

I think the worst part about the 2.5 list would be painting up all those guants.. jeez.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Its also easy to pin down in combat due to low attacks.
Throw 30 gretchin at it, and even if you hit and wound with all attacks, your still only killing 3 per turn.
The model if then unable to do anything for the rest of the game unless you drag an offensive unit over to help it.

I think you are missing the points. You need to have your units working together. The little bugs can not deal with armour, the big 'uns can not deal with hordes. My T-fex will always have a gaunt screen. Even if you avoid them and charge the T-fex they will be charging you next turn with there Str 4 Poisoned attacks. Even Rippers make for a good guard dog unit for the T-fex.

Lyracian wrote:

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Its also easy to pin down in combat due to low attacks.
Throw 30 gretchin at it, and even if you hit and wound with all attacks, your still only killing 3 per turn.
The model if then unable to do anything for the rest of the game unless you drag an offensive unit over to help it.

I think you are missing the points. You need to have your units working together. The little bugs can not deal with armour, the big 'uns can not deal with hordes. My T-fex will always have a gaunt screen. Even if you avoid them and charge the T-fex they will be charging you next turn with there Str 4 Poisoned attacks. Even Rippers make for a good guard dog unit for the T-fex.

I love gaunt screen. Tervigon is the King of Tarpit.