If Ahriman succeeded and became a chaos god in his own right...

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**UrbanCowboy**

Nurglitch wrote:Regarding the Emperor's own Godhead, all we have for evidence that the Emperor didn't want to ascend to the status of divinity is that it was the official position of his Empire prior to his installation on the Golden Throne.

Moreover being worshipped as a god does not make one a god. The Adeptus Astartes don't regard him as a god, for example. Some of the Adeptus Mechanicus regard him as the incarnation of the Machine God, the Omnissiah of cult myth, but other's do not and regarded as an interloper using his psychic powers to dupe the credulous.

That a mortal can ascend to the Immaterium and a warp entity is proven by the existence, or subsistence if we want to properly restrict existence claims to things that exist, that have extension in space and time rather than things with no such quidity, of Daemon Princes and other ascended. Just how much of the mortal identity survives the transition is an open question despite GW often treating daemonic entities as just another alien race (i.e. people with funny shapes), but the fact is that there are daemons that were once apparently people. Plaguebearers of Nurgle are notorious for being the remains of people killed by Nurgle's Rot, for instance.

Personally I like to take two approaches with this. The first is that ascension to Daemonhood is the result of daemonic entities laying an egg in the host's soul, which gradually devours the host's soul and takes its memories for its own. Essentially the transition from person to daemon is the result of a slow and prolonged possession during which the host's material aspect is made sacred and thus immaterial. The resulting daemon is hence whatever fragment of the gestalt Power that the Dark God in question wishes.

The second approach is more traditional in that the mortal in question bargains away fractions of their soul for psychic power, engages in sorcery, trafficking with daemons, and this part by part emptying of their souls and replacing it with the empty form of daemonic power eventually leads to the mortal ascending to the immortal plane (or descending, if you consider their fate as damnation) as they lose touch with, and existence in, the mortal plane.

Interesting...
The difference is that those people become parts of their respective chaos god, ex. the plaguebearers of nurgle are pieces of him. This is according to the Chaos Demons codex. Therefore, they could be the emotions of those people who were killed, not their actual remains. That is a cloudy issue as what a soul is in the 40k fluff is a bit ambiguous/confused. So you may be right. As to what I think, demon princes and such are given 'gifts' which at the same time replace parts of them/turn them more towards and into the respective force of chaos they are receiving the gift from. again, this is somewhat ambiguous.

As to the emperor, his origin is that he is the combination of a bunch of shamans thousands of years before even our contemporary society. The question is, do his worshipers give him/his spirit strength? that goes into the whole star child theory and such, but if that is not where that goes, then where are the associated demon level or god level entities? plus you have to look at the existence of things like Mork and Gork and the eldar pantheon. They are both racial and emotional in nature. I have to say that this is probably an issue that is not definitively answered by lore, but I think evidence does point to the emperor being much more than a mortal and that belief in him does somehow lead to some miraculous circumstances. He was not that strong when he lived/was mobile, considering he is now a husk, regulates/powers the astronomican, and if he does indeed confer these blessings on his own based upon the power from before, than he has a reach with serious power across the whole galaxy. He may have been an advocate of the secular, but even science can be his own god, and he may not have power over him being turned into an avatar/embodiment of certain things when those things are directed at him. Again, nothing decisively proves this stuff one way or the other, merely supposition upon logic.

**Carlovonsexron**

Nurglitch wrote:Carlovonsexron:

I'd imagine that the wars fought by the Chaos Gods are metaphors for how meaning shifts and realigns according to the competition of metaphysical paradigms.

That said, the Dark Powers complement each other, as well as compete for non-material assets such as meaning, dominion, and alliance.

According to the article I linked to in wikipedia Ahriman is an antithesis to the true and the good, representing a notion of evil in various sects of Zoroastrianism. But rather than corner the market on evil, and in keeping with the theme of Chaos Gods being amoral and archtypical, I'd suggest that the Dark Power Ahriman would form the kernel of upon his ascension would be Antithesis, the Chaos God of opposition, conflict, inconsistency, and denial.

I'll agree with this; though you have to admit you cant give too much credence to name symbolism in 40k, given that traditionally Girl names are applied to males ('Artemis', 'Demeter' or variant spelling there of) and Of course the Greco-Roman amrines being lead by a man with a somewhat French name, landing on a rather Scottish sounding planet, or the Viking Horde lead by an Anglo Russian

Though I still have a hard time seeing Pride not being a component of any Human ascending to Godhood; I guess particularly the Emperor - but to a lesser extent even Ahriman, given that opposition, conflict, inconsistency, and denial all usually stem off of some sense of pride in ones own actions and opinions abode and beyond others...

**The Fallen Raven**

alexwars1 wrote:He's failed for the past nine-odd thousand years to get into a library gaurded by disco clowns. Somehow I don't see him ascending to godhood.

Good point mister

**Grey Templar**

Ahriman is actually a god now.

the god of positive thinking and determination. I think i can, I think i can, I think i can........10,000 years later, I think i can, I think i can ,I think i can.........

**shakey787**

goddamn thousand sons book, totally changed my opinion of chaos,