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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Halsfield, 5pts per rhino, how many rhino's would you run anyways...6? Thats only 30pts, out of 2500 thats nothing, except a good strategy.

I don't see where Sazzlefrats is being hypocritical. All he's saying is the defiler isn't worth taking more than one of em. Sounds like you got wood for 2 or 3. Which is cool, I'd rather shoot at defilers if I don't have to worry about obliterators at all. You are deliberately obfuscating the difference between the obliterators blast template, and the one that the defiler has. 3 semi-accurate vs 1 larger but inaccurate (worthless defiler shot), you should get more mileage with the plasma blasts.

DP's are getting weaker and weaker with each new codex. Assuming one even gets to use any psychic powers, you want the longest range one cause you probably won't get to use it twice. Good luck on WOC, I haven't yet seen a time when you can use that, and still be able to charge to avoid getting shot up next turn. And even if you do shoot n charge with WOC, you'll probably win combat... so then you will get shot up next turn.

What about going ultra cheap... just a flying DP, no mark, nada... hah! Neither of you thought of that! 130pts of pure death.

Yeah deepstriking oblits... not a good idea, add up all the turns they are not on the board killing stuff vs getting them way too close to the enemy (i.e. increasing the threat of melta weapons) and it just adds up to a bad idea.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu




Pennsylvania, USA

Just a quick note on DSing the DP. It is my understanding that you must roll for him every turn during the movement phase so he kinda comes when he comes. You can choose where of course, but not when.

I'm also not really sold on the sorcerer the way you have him kitted. His has MoS so he can only use one power per turn. I'd really just take 2 HQs with lash and roll the dice (metaphorically) or with the other loadout and play more conservatively. I also still really dislike your HS section. It is just so all over the place, but if you don't have the models then you don't. My other recommendation there might be to drop HS choices and spend the points elsewhere. Possibly keeping the defiler to draw fire and adding another rhino + troop squad. While the predator can add a more durable unit to put at the front to draw fire from the rhinos...adding another rhino entirely makes losing one that much less of a loss.

I think you've taken most of the advice you're willing to accept so really the next step is playtesting and seeing what needs to be changed. I think you have a good list as is so you should do fine.

Neexo wrote:Halsfield, 5pts per rhino, how many rhino's would you run anyways...6? Thats only 30pts, out of 2500 thats nothing, except a good strategy.

That is quite a slippery slope. It is only 5pts, but it is 5pts that is useful 1/6 of the time(and only after the first weapon is destroyed) on a unit that is going to be dead without weapon destroyed results the majority of the time. If we took every 5pt upgrade "just in case it might be useful" using this line of thinking we would have a lot of points wasted instead of being spent on things that we can guarantee will be useful. It is absolutely the opposite of good strategy and good army building.

Neexo wrote:I don't see where Sazzlefrats is being hypocritical.

Then you might want to reread his posts(and mine explaining exactly why he is being hypocritical) where he both says that defilers are only of marginal use (multiple times) and then also says he takes a defiler. That is pretty much the definition of hypocrisy. He also makes a statement saying he dislikes defilers for their severe scatter on their battlecannon and then says he loves blast templates and takes a lot of them in his lists.

Neexo wrote:
You are deliberately obfuscating the difference between the obliterators blast template, and the one that the defiler has. 3 semi-accurate vs 1 larger but inaccurate (worthless defiler shot), you should get more mileage with the plasma blasts.

Again, I think you need to reread both sazzlefrat's posts and my replies. The issue was that he was denouncing the defiler's battlecannon because it was inaccurate(oh yes, so much more inaccurate when it is 2x as large and 1 less bs)and I was saying the opposite because it is ordnance (far better against vehicles than any of the oblits long range weaponry). He called it only marginally useful, and you are calling it worthless. Yet sazzlefrats uses them. It boggles the mind.

Neexo wrote:
DP's are getting weaker and weaker with each new codex. Assuming one even gets to use any psychic powers, you want the longest range one cause you probably won't get to use it twice. Good luck on WOC, I haven't yet seen a time when you can use that, and still be able to charge to avoid getting shot up next turn. And even if you do shoot n charge with WOC, you'll probably win combat... so then you will get shot up next turn.

You don't see a situation where a fast moving winged DP will get to use a flamer template? Are you anti-flamer template then or is there some reason you don't see a DP moving quickly to within flamer range and shooting it? If they are both going to get used once what difference does it make what the range is? Lash is easily ignored by simply mecching up (quite common atm), whereas WoC works on either infantry or mech. I really don't see the point in taking lash as another "just in case" power for 50pts over 2 DPs.

Taking a DP in the first place assumes you are fine with taking a great deal of fire shot your way so your last point is a bit moot.

Neexo wrote:
What about going ultra cheap... just a flying DP, no mark, nada... hah! Neither of you thought of that! 130pts of pure death.

-_-. No one suggested it because Mizzri obiviously wanted psychic powers. Sanctjud runs barebones DPs all the time and we've talked about them at length in other threads. They are great for lowering their profile, keeping them cheap, and getting them into close combat without a hail of gunfire being thrown their way. The main issue is that if you're taking all of that away you're better off taking an absolutely barebones HQ (ie chaos lord /w CM for 100pts) and spending the 300-400 pts otherwise spent on DPs on 1-2 troop/elite/HS units.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/05/06 11:16:15


In the embrace of the great Nurgle, I am no longer afraid, for with His pestilential favour I have become that which I once most feared: Death.

-Kulvain Hestarius, Death Guard  
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Western Washington State, U.S.A.

I like this current list, mostly, but still advocate Abbadon as he's the best CC solo in 40k and belongs in every 2001+ point list IMHO.

I'd cut the predator and prince to get the points for Abbadon

"All of the whining pisses me off... Somewhere some whiny girlyman reinterpreted sportsmanship to reflect the build and not the player. The build has nothing to do with sportsmanship and getting docked as such is ludicrous." -Inigo Montoya
That being said, I'll still give you a 0 if you bring more than 5 eldar skimmers. Don't be that guy.
Also, strippers. 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





205 Prince is ok.
Sorc is IMO not a great combo of powers.
Lash/Warp Time is ok cause they both work in different phases.

If you have wind/lash you can’t use both, so either you lash into flame template but can’t use it, or flame template but nothing is bunched up.

Oblits are ok.
Defiler is meh.
Pred is meh.
No double seems not so great.

Termies: ICON of Slaanesh, and you don’t need that many members nor the bling if you are just getting them for the some-what crappy Land Raider.
Chosen Looks ok, but IoCG is a bit fat.

CSM troops: I do not suggest mixing weapons.
Zerkers look ok…bit of old fluff kill though w/ sorc joining them.
Plauges look ok.
NM look ok.

I think in general, you need more transport busting.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
 
   
 
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