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yakface wrote:

Norade wrote:

Interesting, my idea was to try and use so many rokkit type weapons as well as lootas that after at most a turn of shooting the worst of your enemies vehicles end up shaken, stunned, or otherwise in no position to threaten you. Do that for turn one and two and on turn three release the WAAAGH!

The Waaagh doesn't work for Kans and Dreads, or were you just using the term to describe unleashing the army in CC?

The thing about Rokkits, even 9 of them in an army, is unfortunately in 5th edition you're pretty unlikely to do any real damage to vehicles with them. And there are quite a few vehicles out there now that come with extra armor, or people take it in their armies anyway. Shaking a vehicle doesn't really do you any good as they can still move far enough away from your Kans/Dreads to prevent a charge in most cases because they don't benefit from the Waaagh.

If you're dealing with a mechanized army that can outshoot what you've got, then you really need to be running EVERY turn with your Kans and Dreads in order to really put the pressure on them. This is also where the threat of outflanking Koptas and Snikrot can help to 'funnel' your opponnents towards you as they know if they try to run away from you into the corners or against the back edge your guys will be popping on from behind to nuke their vehicles.


So to summarize: Rokkits don't do crap against vehicles but Grotzookas do kill lots of infantry and light vehicles and are less points.

Good points, my local group isn't nearly so competitive as what would appear in a national tournament so what I've seen working here has likely been thought of and counted at major events already.

Redbeard has just been dead-on. I spent a year with the kan wall and it does very well...

A couple of points that need to be touched on.

-This army is a gunline! Do not press the 'run' button. You can and should move forward as far as you are comfortable with, and shoot according to your target priority, which you should have been carefully deciding on as your opponent deployed.

-Understand exactly why this list works. It has an infinitely generated 4+ cover, that does not require terrain. Kan walls always have the same 4 units in them. Know why each unit is in there.

Big Mek- That is an easy one. His KFF is the wargear that this army is based on.

Lootas- Enemy mobility and the extra survivability that transports provide to important units are your number one weakness. units can contest your hard claimed objectives with their numerous transports, and in lots of cases, avoid your 24" range rokkits for a couple turns. Lootas enjoy the protection of a shoota boy screen, compliment the rest of the armies shooting, and are an acceptable casualty to lose after the first two turns where they have already helped you slow your opponent down.

Shootas- Well, you have to score, and you don't want or need to invest in the mobility of a battlewagon (you can't in fact) So a very large mob or two of orks stays fearless for a long time, and can cover more than one objective with their footprint. They aren't some awesome elite assault unit, don't commit with them that way unless you are sure you know what you are doing. They are a troop... meant to score, they can defend themselves as needed, but they aren't your killers. Why rokkits instead of X? Well, its 5th edition. Thats about all you need to know.

grots- there is no need to waste shoota boys on home objectives. Most armies will not really be able to penetrate the wall, so a single very small grot unit can safely hang out on the capture and control objective that you wisely placed in your back corner, and go to ground when they feel a stiff breeze.

kans- This is the jelly to the big meks peanut butter. Knowing the rules for ramming and tank shocking through and through is vital for this unit. the primary reason this unit is taken over say, kannons is that a string of kans can almost completely shut down an enemies ability to tank shock. that mean pushing your boys off of objectives, or getting a transport in range to contest objectives is a tool that is taken away from your opponent. They are also your only consistent answer to land raiders. Why rokkits instead of X? See shoota boys...

-How many units of boys do you need? i am very comfortable saying that two units of 30 is ample, as long as you've brought your 10 man grot unit along as well.

-What size should my loota units be? In my opinion there are only two sizes of loota unit. 5 and 15. If you aren't running 15, your first morale test will be at a very low leadership of 7. Hopefully you aren't making that test with 7 lootas, because that is a lot of points to be essentially flipping a coin on. At 5 strong, they'll never enjoy mob rule, but you aren't losing much on a failed moral test either, if there are even any lootas left at the end of that phase.

-What other units can work in a kan wall? Well you probably won't have any heavy slots or HQ slots left, and its likely that you've filled all of your slots on lootas as well. And i never add to my troops choices unless i am going up in army size. Overspending on troops is not wise. So that leaves fast attack. I feel that the 'first turn charging or outflanking' deffkoptas with twin linked rokkits and buzzsaw are a good choice. either as a single deffkopta with both buzzsaw and rokkits or as a pait with both having rokkits and one having a buzzsaw. I also think that rokkit armed buggies are also an excellent choice there. When needed they can receive a 4+ cover as they fire, and lay down more rokkit hits for longer than the deffkoptas, but they lack that surprise top of turn 1 charge on a stationary vehicle that deffkoptas have.

-What models should I start with?

KFF mek
KFF mek

5x lootas
5x lootas
5x lootas

30x boys 3x rokkits nob bosspole power klaw
30x boys 3x rokkits nob bosspole power klaw
10x gretchin 1x runtherd

3x kans 3x rokkits
3x kans 3x rokkits
3x kans 3x rokkits

This is around 1300 points. From that core... go nuts. More lootas? Three units of buggies? Try some deffkoptas?

-This army is a gunline! Do not press the 'run' button. You can and should move forward as far as you are comfortable with, and shoot according to your target priority, which you should have been carefully deciding on as your opponent deployed.

You will pretty much have no other option than running with your Shootas and Kanz first turn; in spearhead deployment, you very well may have to run 2 turns.

Your cover is completely mobile, and extremely flexible with 2 KFF, take advantage of that while you can. There is no need to forfeit a gain of 3" on the table, as the amount of table you 'own', is very important to your success. A list like this can dominate every lane on the field, limiting transport movement by a very large degree. I think that at 1850-2000 points, KFF lists do marginally better, because they can push the entire (6 foot) length of the board all game.

Cool thread though, very informative.

Good post Shep thanks for the advice. It's good to hear some feedback from some people that play the list.

Any thoughts on Deff Dreads?

I've read a lot of opinions on Grotzooka vs. Rokkit Kans not only in this thread but from a lot of other Kan wall players.

Linkdead wrote:Any thoughts on Deff Dreads?

Forgot to mention them.

I don't find them terribly appealing. But they are a decent unit to fill out points with once you've got the proper amount of anti-tank and scoring units. How exactly to equip them, and run them you'd have to go somewhere else for... Once I figured out i didn't like them I stopped using them. My guess would be to go all close combat arms and just send him at the enemy. He will quickly outpace the pack and be subject to annihilation, but maybe he can take the heat off of your working parts for a bit.

So, they're fine. Not great, not bad.

Wow! This has become a great thread! Shep, I really like your list at 1300 points if i wanted to do something similar what should I get first based on what I already have?And as far as deffkoptas go, I like to run 3, is it worth putting a buzzsaw on all 3 or just one or none? If anyone else has answers to any of these questions feel free to do so! Also any tips and advice would be helpful! Thanks!

If you use the above template adding 2 deffkoptas with tl rokkits and one buzzsaw makes 1500 pts exactly. Don't run them together though run them in single man units.