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Yeah, the idea of folks dropping out before the end is really lame. Play the darn game.

I played in it for the first time last year. In 2007 I wasn’t interested. In 2008 I had a fun list I wanted to try out, but had to miss the preliminary as I was out getting a replacement car for my wife. In 2009 I made it in on a lark, but it was more interesting under 5th ed rules anyway.

My first game was against a local who’s not very competitive, and was fine. My second game was from someone I had never played before, who lives a good distance away, but occasionally comes to the store for tournaments. He gave me a really good, competitive game and I barely eked out a Win that could very easily have been a Draw. He had a nice painted force, too, as I recall. The third game was against someone else local, but who doesn’t usually play in the local league, with a more competitive, though not attractive, force. It was a fine game. So I had two acceptable-but-not-spectacular games, and one really good one, two of them against people I’d never played before. I won, and had a good time. Definitely worth the time.

I had to drive a substantial distance to the Regional up in Bangor, but had a friend to carpool with, and a place to crash in Bangor, so I could drive up the night before, play a game, and not have a terrible drive the morning of the event. I had an okay first game; not very competitive, but against a painted army and a nice guy. I had a really competitive second game, against a really nice-looking army, though the player tried a couple of shenanigans. That said, I screwed up at least one rule significantly, so it’s possible that some of that was honest mistakes. My third game was against a reasonably-nice guy, though with kind of an awful-looking army; it seemed obvious that he was not a regular tournament player. Got two Massacres and then Drew the third game, barely squeeking out the win again.

At the final in Chicago I faced a strong but significantly-unpainted Ork army round 1, though piloted by a nice and competitive player. We Drew, knocking each other out of the running. Then I faced BBF’s Blood Angels (a competitive and nice-looking force), and we had a good, competitive game, which I managed to get a Major win out of. Third round I faced Centurian99’s Daemons, and had a really good, tight game, which I probably would have lost or Drawn if he hadn’t lost his big unit of Bloodcrushers to a deep strike mishap. As it was he still gave me a heck of a fight, though I managed to eke out the Massacre. Which was perhaps a bad way to repay my host for giving me a place to stay in Chicago, but he’s too nice a guy to complain.

Overall I had one really good and two okay games in the prelim, two solid games in the Regional, and three good ones in the final. So about 2/3 quality games, and only one or two that weren’t a lot of fun. I faced only two bad-looking armies, and five that were good tournament-quality paint jobs. I had a good time, won some prizes, and got some minor bragging rights. Definitely felt worth my travel and time investments, though I don’t know if I’d have spent the extra for a hotel for the Final; the plane ticket was steep enough.

PanamaG wrote:Not all people who play for fluff are FAAC, but you will know them when you see footslogging Craftworld Eldar or homebrew Marines, mixed with dice and rules cheating.

Haha, hey! I play Foot Eldar and Home brew Marines and I am most certainly not a FAAC player! I am a very competitive player!

I am just messing with you, but that is stereotyping quite a bit. The list doesn't determine the player, it is the attitude. I do have to say though, from personal experience that they fluff oriented players tend to be more close minded than the competitive players as to what they deem to be acceptable for the game. It is unfortunate, everyone should be free to play as they choose.

And it trips me out to hear these horror stories of bad experiences in tournaments. In all my competitive gaming, I have never had a bad game. In fact, since becoming an adult, I have only had like two game sI can remember in which I really didn't enjoy myself. That is a bummer to hear about these games that are such bad experiences.

Centurian99 wrote:It's good advice for any tournament really, regardless of whether its ard boyz or not...don't expect to win. Go to play game and have fun.

Even a competitive MF like myself, I have to go into an event knowing that there's a chance that the perfect counter to my army could end up across the table from me. If this happens, there's nothing I can do, and I can either play my best and try and have a good time, or I can whine like a little bitch and let it ruin my day.

Since its up to me...I'd rather try and have a good time.

About the ONLY thing that really annoys me is slow play.

agreed... slow play... and when its last turn... and 15 minutes to go and my opponent has 2 models on the table... and says we can't get the turn in.

that also sucks

Ragnar you got very lucky in our game as well... rolling boxcars to first fail a shooting test for your terminators then rolling boxcars again to fallback out of charge arc. I think you only won the game based on those two very lucky rolls. I'm not knocking you but you must admit you were extremely lucky.

Says the guy who rolled six to pen six to explode on my landraider at the top of turn 1. I did get a bit lucky with the terminators, but you had some luck on your side as well.

Memory lapses are common when they revolve around your own bad luck or your enemies awesome rolls :p In general both players have the same amount of good rolls.. Its just we focus more on what negatively affects us

Kirasu wrote:Memory lapses are common when they revolve around your own bad luck or your enemies awesome rolls :p In general both players have the same amount of good rolls.. Its just we focus more on what negatively affects us

Unless your name is Dashofpepper and you play Dark Eldar, then the swarms of dice responsible for my "to hit" and "penetrate" on my dark lances will consistently fail to perform.

Agreed Ragnar! We always remember the bad dice.

G

If you can divorce your ego from the 'need to win' then you should.
If your ego depends on winning the game, then don't bother.

If you are going for the chance to play against people and armies you don't ordinarily play against, then go.

Honestly, I think the most productive strategy for 'ard Boyz would be to decide which army you find most annoying, either Marines or IG, and build a list to kill that type. What could be more fun than being able to say "No one's winning with Wolves/Vampires/Metal Boxes on my watch!", right?

solkan wrote:Honestly, I think the most productive strategy for 'ard Boyz would be to decide which army you find most annoying, either Marines or IG, and build a list to kill that type. What could be more fun than being able to say "No one's winning with Wolves/Vampires/Metal Boxes on my watch!", right?

LOL, that was exactly my plan... If I can't enjoy good social and painting activities, I can take a speedbump list. I will fully admit my army will take no skill to play and abuses mathhammer and Min/maxing... But hey! It's ard boyz!

My model count is up to 250ish models right now for my list. Where to get 20 more kommandos and 6 more kannons in 2 weeks.

nkelsch wrote:

solkan wrote:Honestly, I think the most productive strategy for 'ard Boyz would be to decide which army you find most annoying, either Marines or IG, and build a list to kill that type. What could be more fun than being able to say "No one's winning with Wolves/Vampires/Metal Boxes on my watch!", right?

LOL, that was exactly my plan... If I can't enjoy good social and painting activities, I can take a speedbump list. I will fully admit my army will take no skill to play and abuses mathhammer and Min/maxing... But hey! It's ard boyz!

My model count is up to 250ish models right now for my list. Where to get 20 more kommandos and 6 more kannons in 2 weeks.

If you built an army to consistently take down mech guard, you would do just fine against other lists you face. You could also use Space Wolves as your test opponent.

Due to 5th, mech is the 'list to beat'. Anything on foot just has so much working against it (less speed, less able to manoevre, affected by tank shock). About all a foot army has going for it is the ubiquitous 4+ cover save.

I have am not neccesarrily a fluff bunny, but I have a tendencey to find a specific way I want ot play an army, which doesnt always play as strongly into that armies strengths as it could. In effect, I play at the same level as the fluff bunnies.

I've enjoyed hard boys. It's always been fun. I only ever had one bad experiecnce, and that was a guy who just could not get off his can and get moving. I really think he was stalling me.

nkelsch wrote:

solkan wrote:Honestly, I think the most productive strategy for 'ard Boyz would be to decide which army you find most annoying, either Marines or IG, and build a list to kill that type. What could be more fun than being able to say "No one's winning with Wolves/Vampires/Metal Boxes on my watch!", right?

LOL, that was exactly my plan... If I can't enjoy good social and painting activities, I can take a speedbump list. I will fully admit my army will take no skill to play and abuses mathhammer and Min/maxing... But hey! It's ard boyz!

My model count is up to 250ish models right now for my list. Where to get 20 more kommandos and 6 more kannons in 2 weeks.

I hope youre very experienced and a fast player because that many models is not min/maxing at all lol.. Maybe maxing. More models just raises the chances you wont finish a game and draw without much fun

After a little bit of thinking on this thread...

what is a win at all costs player?

1) A player who cheats lies and steals his way to win

2) A player who knows the rules better than most, will work within the rules to win, and knows the strategy he should use for his army at any given time.

What do you consider WAAC?

Over the past 2 years I have become a very competitive 40k gamer and have been accused of being a WAAC player by people who don't know their rules.. or don't play as often as i do and may make tactical errors.

I actively "practice" to win games with my friends during the summer, playing 2-5 games a week or more during a tourny week.

I know what my army can do. I know that If I drop 8 Blood crushers down, I can walk through most armies, providing my opponent doesn't multi charge them. I plan my moves very carefully and I bring a strong list.

Am I WAAC?

frgsinwntr wrote:After a little bit of thinking on this thread...

what is a win at all costs player?

1) A player who cheats lies and steals his way to win

2) A player who knows the rules better than most, will work within the rules to win, and knows the strategy he should use for his army at any given time.

What do you consider WAAC?

Over the past 2 years I have become a very competitive 40k gamer and have been accused of being a WAAC player by people who don't know their rules.. or don't play as often as i do and may make tactical errors.

I actively "practice" to win games with my friends during the summer, playing 2-5 games a week or more during a tourny week.

I know what my army can do. I know that If I drop 8 Blood crushers down, I can walk through most armies, providing my opponent doesn't multi charge them. I plan my moves very carefully and I bring a strong list.

Am I WAAC?

This exaggerated term is bandied about most frequently by self-righteous hobbyists and sore losers, but it does carry some meaning. The key word in the phrase "win at all costs" is all. Practicing and learning the rules is only part of what you can do to win. You can also cheat, though I hope you choose not to. If you do not, you're not attempting to win at all costs, merely some of them, and therefore you don't fit the description. You're simply a competitive gamer, which is a good thing.

In my mind, this isn't an easy question.

In a tournament environment, it's an easier question though.

At a tournament - even a tournament with comp, or soft-scores - a WAAC player is either someone who cheats or bullys opponents in order to win games.

Knowing the rules is not WAAC. Bringing tough lists is not WAAC. Acting within the scope of the rules is not WAAC.

But resorting to underhanded tactics, and I'm not going to go into all the possibilities here, is WAAC. Bottom line, if you need to resort to any sort of cheating, whether it's as simple as forgetting key rules at key times, or surfing extra inches during the movement phase, that's WAAC behaviour.


It's a more interesting question outside of tournaments though. Outside of a tournament setting (or, games specifically played to test or improve your skill for the purpose of tournament play), where the primary goal is to have fun with your friends, WAAC can pretty much be defined as anything that detracts from your opponent's enjoyment of the game.

In these scenarios, tailoring your army to beat what you know your opponent might take can fall into that category. Playing tournament-style armies against opponents who are fielding more fluffy armies on friendly-game-night could be construed as WAAC behaviour.

It all really depends on the situation. Behaviour that is appropriate in a tournament isn't necessarily appropriate in an apocalypse game (and vice-versa).

For once I agree with Danny, though with a side of Redbeard.

Don't drink that koolaid.

A WAAC player will resort to cheating to win. The term is self explanatory.

G

Steve as always... you have a good phrase.

It's too bad I can't afford to take a trip to florida this year... we never got a game in.

Steve as always... you have a good phrase.

It's too bad I can't afford to take a trip to florida this year... we never got a game in.

Yeah that is for sure. We might just do it again in December. We are billing this now as the first zero BS GT ever hopefully. : )

G

"The gods favor fools and drunkards"
-Socrates

"The Dice Gods favor whoever they want"
-me


that should be all the encouragement you need bro.

ya don't worry too much about jerks I am going to play myself this year, but from what I have heard from all the guys at my shop that its allot of fun and there are only one or two power gamers out of like 20 people. So you should do fine.
just remember to take plenty of anti-tank and gear your lists toward survivability.

I don't understand why anyone that can build a decent 2500 point army list wouldn't play in, at the very least, 1st round 'Ard Boyz.

It's a free tournament at an unusual but fun points level with decent prize support. My store never runs comp/sports tournaments and we've never had problems with asshats.

(edited for: "never mind")

Just go. Don't be intimidated, if you don't do well it's just more experience and you can do better later. Win-win scenario either way.

May the Dice Gods be with you.

Remember this; It's not about if you win that last turn objective grab or finagle a kill-points win technicallity, it's about HOW MUCH STUFF YOU KILL IN HORRIBLE AWESOME FIREY DEATH AND EXPLOSIONS AND RUTHLESS CHOPPING AND... AND... AND... and... um.

Oh sorry I got posessed by Khorne for a second there.

crazyK wrote: I hate backing down from a challenge (to myself), but I think I'm not at that "level" of a player yet. I guess I'm asking, should I bother to even try?

You can't become a great player by sitting at home and playing it safe. Take your ass down to the tournament! Win or lose, you're going to see some very competitive players and some not-so. But the most important thing you will take away is experience. What worked, and what didn't.

Best of luck!

Messenger Boy: The Thesselonian you're fighting... he's the biggest man i've ever seen. I wouldn't want to fight him.
Achilles: Thats why no-one will remember your name.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Kirasu wrote:Memory lapses are common when they revolve around your own bad luck or your enemies awesome rolls :p In general both players have the same amount of good rolls.. Its just we focus more on what negatively affects us

Unless your name is Dashofpepper and you play Dark Eldar, then the swarms of dice responsible for my "to hit" and "penetrate" on my dark lances will consistently fail to perform.

I don't think the name has anything to do with it. Last year at the finals I think I managed to kill all of two vehicles after game 1 with my swarm of lances and blasters. Add to that amazing dice luck on the part of my opponents...still smarting from the beating Darth Diggler gave me...

kronk wrote:

crazyK wrote: I hate backing down from a challenge (to myself), but I think I'm not at that "level" of a player yet. I guess I'm asking, should I bother to even try?

You can't become a great player by sitting at home and playing it safe. Take your ass down to the tournament! Win or lose, you're going to see some very competitive players and some not-so. But the most important thing you will take away is experience. What worked, and what didn't.

Best of luck!

QFT

YAAAAAR!!!!