Devildog vs Demolisher vs Medusa

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**Stormrider**

I love the Demolisher, but putting that much firepower on one tank really is putting hunter orange on it. Almost guaranteeing it will be shot at first. It would have been my most expensive unit if I had taken it (Hull Lascannon, MM's). Very effective at killing tanks and heavy stuff, but also very vunerable to being overwhelmed with targets, as alluded to earlier. It will probably kill what ever it shoots at, but it is leaving itself open to something else.

**Terminus**

Demolishers are crap. The short range pretty much negates the whole advantage of AV14. You are more likely to expose your side armor, are more likely to get assaulted or melta'd, and are less likely to gain cover saves.

Plus, I hate 150+ point models that only have one or two shots, especially if they are BS3 and/or scatter weapons. It's way too easy to accomplish exactly jack squat, and with the Demolisher in particular you could very well fall prey to the thing you were going after. That's why I mainly use Manticores, Executioners and Hydra/Griffon squadrons for my heavy support.

For what it counts, the Breacher Medusa is not bad if you face a lot of Land Raiders or Monoliths, as these targets are quite large and easy to hit (I field four breachers in our super-heavy-ladden Apocalypse games

). And the Breacher has 48" range by the way.

**mercer**

Ailaros wrote:

mercer wrote:
Not really with the demolisher. A bit of target priority here and common sense and what to take out. The way you've put it is "oh I spot infantry I must kill them" this isn't the case.... the load out you suggested is overkill and making the tank very expensive. Why move closer when you don't have to with the large template? Certainly putting your expensive tank at risk.

Of course you need target priority, but your opponent is perfectly capable of saturating you with targets. I mean, if you're playing against a marine player and you've got a land raider full of terminators bearing down on you and a squad of death company charging just further afield, it poses a serious question as to which should be targeted by the demolisher, especially if you've accidentally kitted the demolisher with plasma sponsons. In this case, I'd say that the better thing would be to shoot the death company, but this means that you now have nothing shooting at the land raider. As such, your "anti tank" demolisher can find itself rightly not shooting against tanks.

And yes, this is horrendously expensive, which is why I would never take it personally (I'd take 3 meltagun SWSs instead), but to its credit, if you can keep it out of assault, it can take a whole lot of "weapon destroyed" results and still be effective against tanks (and you can still always rely on ramming even then). Plus, some people really value AV14 in general, and if you keep it in cover, it's basically immune to long range anti tank.

And I don't like the word "overkill". I prefer the word "insurance". After all, when you're shooting at something with a 200 point tank it better the heck be dead after a turn of shooting.

I think ocne again you're blaming the tank for player faults, surely the Demolisher wouldn't the the only anti tank and of course melta would be better job against Land Raiders. Or Demolishers taken in pairs. Unit redundancy here. I run two Demolishers and plenty of melta so the scenario you described wouldn't be a issue for me.

However I do agree with your assessment; the Death Company would be the easier target. Let the Land Raider disgorge the Terminators and the Demolisher then can fire at them with AP2.

The Demolisher is better against infantry no doubt, but it can bust tanks too. As mentioned, target priority and unit redundancy is a key here and points I think you're missing. It appears you're blaming the tank for the players faults because they cannot target priority well or think of redundancy in a list.

**Bonde**

I run both a demolisher and a medusa in my 1500 points list. I haven't had great succes with them in my games yet (although I often win), because they are always the first units to bite the dust.
My enemies always prioritize them as targets (which is clearly a good idea) so I almost never get a shot off with especially the Medusa.
I don't use them as anti-tank, because I have a decent amount of (guess what) mechanized meltavets in my army and I find the blast templates really unreliable because of only one possibe hit that might just do gak.
When the Medusa finally starts shooting, mostly because I get the first turn, it can easily kill its own points worth in one shot. My Medusa has the enclosed crew compartment upgrade, simply because it is a fire magnet all the time and only AV 12. It also has bastion breacher shells whenever there is a land raider or monolith on the battlefield. I field the demolisher with plasma cannons to kill MEQ and not tanks or transports - actually I wouldn't use any of the three tanks mentioned in this thread in an anti-tank role, with the only exception of the Medusa when facing lot of AV 14 at range.

**Stormrider**

The Medusa is looking to be the best of the three for tankbusting at range. But it is sure to draw an angry reprisal. Be ready to put it back in the army case quickly.

**Ailaros**

mercer wrote:It appears you're blaming the tank for the players faults because they cannot ... think of redundancy in a list.

This is actually one of my complaints against the demolisher - that you are forced to bring more antitank elsewhere in your list to cover for the demolisher sometimes not being an antitank weapon.

And yeah, the medusa is probably the best of the three, but it's definitely not the best in the codex. This is sort of like saying which is better against MEq's, Hellhounds, griffons or hydras. One of them is better, but none of them are the best for the job.

**mercer**

Ailaros wrote:
mercer wrote:It appears you're blaming the tank for the players faults because they cannot ... think of redundancy in a list.

This is actually one of my complaints against the demolisher - that you are forced to bring more antitank elsewhere in your list to cover for the demolisher sometimes not being an antitank weapon.

And yeah, the medusa is probably the best of the three, but it's definitely not the best in the codex. This is sort of like saying which is better against MEq's, Hellhounds, griffons or hydras. One of them is better, but none of them are the best for the job.

Well you wouldn't just take demolishers to pop tanks. You'd take a range of weaponary from long range to melta, not because of the demolisher but because you need range and melta.

However, I do agree the medusa with bastion shells is probably the best anti tank unit out of the three. However for busting MEQ's the colossus is for the win

**Terminus**

Eh, depends on the Marines. If they can get within 24", there goes your fancy artillery.

**Lycaeus Wrex**

Terminus wrote:Demolishers are crap. The short range pretty much negates the whole advantage of AV14. You are more likely to expose your side armor, are more likely to get assaulted or melta'd, and are less likely to gain cover saves.

Plus, I hate 150+ point models that only have one or two shots, especially if they are BS3 and/or scatter weapons. It's way too easy to accomplish exactly jack squat, and with the Demolisher in particular you could very well fall prey to the thing you were going after. That's why I mainly use Manticores, Executioners and Hydra/Griffon squadrons for my heavy support.

For what it counts, the Breacher Medusa is not bad if you face a lot of Land Raiders or Monoliths, as these targets are quite large and easy to hit (I field four breachers in our super-heavy-ladden Apocalypse games ). And the Breacher has 48" range by the way.

I disagree. Demolishers are a very nice tank that simply needs a little bit of forethought in order to be used effectively. Yes, they have a short range gun, but they are better armoured than a Vindicator and demolisher cannons are VERY high on the scare-o-meter.

Side AV of 13? You can target my sides all you want, you're still highly unlikely to penetrate it. The cover save arguement is nullified somewhat by the fact that the Demolisher comes with smoke launchers, and in Turn 1 you're unlikely to be in range anyway. With regards the assaulted/melta'd arguement, yes you are moving closer to the enemy, but they need to make damn sure that they kill it when they into range; so much so that they may over-commit and leave themselves vulnerable elsewhere.

I take two Demolishers in my 1500 list as it scares the hell out of my opponents and draws anti-armour fire away from my much more vulnerable Chimeras - and if they ignore the Demolishers then...well...I hope they enjoy removing models from the board.

L. Wrex

**Ailaros**

Right, I'm not a big fan of the demolisher, largely because it comes with this serious liability:

Lycaeus Wrex wrote: With regards the assaulted/melta'd arguement, yes you are moving closer to the enemy

...And you have to hope that you've already killed their meltaguns et. al. before they get closer, or the tank is dead. They do lots of damage, but are fragile. It was true back in 4th ed, and it's TERRIBLY true now. This is basically why I don't take them anymore.

That said, I don't dismiss them immediately out of hand because of their firepower potential. Yes, a super-anti-tank demolisher costs 200 points and is uncomfortably fragile, but when it points its guns at a vehicle of any armor value out of cover, it's very likely to be dead, and still has a decent chance if it's in cover. It may be woefully points inefficient, but at least its effective against that which it engages, which is a rather rare thing on a single-unit basis as far as the guard is concerned.

**Shadowbrand**

I ran a normal russ with HB's and a Manticore. This was more for fighting light tanks and infantry.

I never got far with my traitors but let me say. Melta Vets in a valk or chimera are the best for taking out heavier targets.

Just my 2 cents. Oh give the valk a try as I never had one, I want to try one though! If I ever start up IG again.