No whine discussion of Ard Boyz Missions

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**Black Blow Fly**

What are you talking about Audoro?

G

**hyperviper6**

The Everliving wrote:The TO at the store closest to me is ruling that Drop Pods give up 3 kill points, for the reasons others have already given. There might be an faq in time for the semis, but I doubt there will be one for the qualifiers.

Did you ask him to show you how a drop pod can move over 6 inches? Or even one for that matter? Just because they count as having moved at crusing speed, they never actually move at crusing speed. Just as sterguard count as scoring but are not actually troops or scarab swarms move as jetbikes but are not actually jetbikes ect...

**Kirasu**

GW could make a FAQ in time just like last year.. It seems like whoever wrote last years GREAT missions was probably laid off like everyone decent who works at GW

If they rule drop pods count as 3 Kps then you might as well not even show up with marines and want to win..

Viva la gunline! or foot slogging

**The Everliving**

Did you ask him to show you how a drop pod can move over 6 inches? Or even one for that matter? Just because they count as having moved at crusing speed, they never actually move at crusing speed.

Of course they moved at crusing speed. Thats what happens when a vehicle deepstrikes. That would be why landspeeders can only fire one weapon when deepstriking, or why when a Blood Angels landraider deepstrikes enemy models hit it on 6's in close combat...

But anyway, the TO has the perogative to make the call since he's the guy running the event. I'm glad I asked in advance.

**imweasel**

hyperviper6 wrote:
The Everliving wrote:The TO at the store closest to me is ruling that Drop Pods give up 3 kill points, for the reasons others have already given. There might be an faq in time for the semis, but I doubt there will be one for the qualifiers.
Did you ask him to show you how a drop pod can move over 6 inches? Or even one for that matter? Just because they count as having moved at crusing speed, they never actually move at crusing speed. Just as sterguard count as scoring but are not actually troops or scarab swarms move as jetbikes but are not actually jetbikes ect...

Maybe the TO is counting scatter?

**Lorek**

I'm running one in Tampa, and here's my take on the Mission 3 Kill Point thing:

Also, with regards to Mission 3 and the "3 KPs for any model that can move more than 6 inches in any phase (excepting fleeing and running)", I'm inclined to not count Deep Striking as movement. Technically, when you Deep Strike, you are deploying models directly on the table, and the initial model placed is simply a marker used to determine final placement from the Scatter roll (otherwise, ALL models would be placed on the board, and then moved).

If anyone has a huge problem with this, let me know (of course, this ONLY applies to Deep Strikers that can't normally move more than 6", like Drop Pods, Terminators and Mycetic Spores; units like Blood Angel Land Raiders will still count for the 3 KPs).

This was posted on the store's forum, so you don't need to let me know if you have a problem with this (well, you CAN, but it won't affect what I do).

**frgsinwntr**

Aduro wrote:
frgsinwntr wrote:
Aduro wrote:
Stirling wrote:
Aduro wrote:Only NON-vehicle (and non-swarm) Troops are Scoring Units, so the Dread would not count regardless.
Dreads are not vehicles, they are walkers. Would have to look at the brb but if your wording is correct, they would count.

Where do people get this? I hate to single you out, but I've heard this several times from several people, including some local ones. How is a Walker any less of a vehicle than a Tank or a Skimmer? They have an Armor Value for their different sides. They use the Vehicle damage charts. What justification is there to say they're Not vehicles?

I don't think you're listening to them.

Here is the argument:
#1 YES walkers are vehicles this is not the argument.
#2 BUT walkers move as infantry
#3 Infantry/walkers do not follow normal vehicle movement Therefore walkers who Deepstrike move as infantry and not at "cruising speed"

Thats is why they can shoot the turn they arrive despite not being fast

And that makes them count as Scouring Units how?

My bad, I thought you were trying to argue that deep striking walkers were 3kps each.

I didn't gather from your post you were saying that walkers that are troops can score... in fact i really didn't get that from any posts above...

well in that regard you are correct. Nothing with an AV can score

**mikhaila**

Lorek wrote:I'm running one in Tampa, and here's my take on the Mission 3 Kill Point thing:

Also, with regards to Mission 3 and the "3 KPs for any model that can move more than 6 inches in any phase (excepting fleeing and running)", I'm inclined to not count Deep Striking as movement. Technically, when you Deep Strike, you are deploying models directly on the table, and the initial model placed is simply a marker used to determine final placement from the Scatter roll (otherwise, ALL models would be placed on the board, and then moved).

If anyone has a huge problem with this, let me know (of course, this ONLY applies to Deep Strikers that can't normally move more than 6", like Drop Pods, Terminators and Mycetic Spores; units like Blood Angel Land Raiders will still count for the 3 KPs).

This was posted on the store's forum, so you don't need to let me know if you have a problem with this (well, you CAN, but it won't affect what I do).

Unless GW specifically says differently, I'm going to rule the same way you are at the two prelims my stores are running. Immoble drop pods are not "fast wunz!".

1. Drop Pod comes screaming out of the sky at mach 6 belching fire out it's ass.
2. Brave orks blaze away at it with shooters, throwing some lead in it's general direction.
3. Drop Pod hits the ground, ...and STOPS MOVING! Huzzah! Ork Victory! Stopped Dat Sucker Cold!!

**Stirling**

Aduro wrote:
frgsinwntr wrote:
Aduro wrote:
Stirling wrote:
Aduro wrote:Only NON-vehicle (and non-swarm) Troops are Scoring Units, so the Dread would not count regardless.
Dreads are not vehicles, they are walkers. Would have to look at the brb but if your wording is correct, they would count.

Where do people get this? I hate to single you out, but I've heard this several times from several people, including some local ones. How is a Walker any less of a vehicle than a Tank or a Skimmer? They have an Armor Value for their different sides. They use the Vehicle damage charts. What justification is there to say they're Not vehicles?

I don't think you're listening to them.

Here is the argument:
#1 YES walkers are vehicles this is not the argument.
#2 BUT walkers move as infantry
#3 Infantry/walkers do not follow normal vehicle movement Therefore walkers who Deepstrike move as infantry and not at "cruising speed"

Thats is why they can shoot the turn they arrive despite not being fast

And that makes them count as Scouring Units how?

Ok, as I said I had to check the brb. I play Tau and therefore have no walkers. Really, the reply should have been:

The different types of vehicle are: transport, tank, open-topped, skimmer and walker. - BRB page 56

Yes, I was wrong ... it happens. However, if you are going to correct, please post the information why it is so. A lot handier and informative.

**Kirasu**

Im pretty sure my dreadnoughts cannot scour.. However I have not officially tested them on a dirty counter top either

**Ckilleen**

Monster Rain wrote:
jtw1n wrote:I think a drop pod should be one as it never really moves after deployment.

I agree. Particularly since scattering isn't really moving, it's just an adjustment to where the unit is deployed...

Just so you know in the BRB under deepstrike is says moves for the scatter that means if you go RAW then any unit deepstriking can move over 6" in a single phase of the game. not sure on the exact wording as I don't have the book with me at this time.

edit for clarity

**thehod**

Dark Angels Landspeeders score IIRC.

Codex > Rulebook

**Aduro**

Kirasu wrote:Im pretty sure my dreadnoughts cannot scour.. However I have not officially tested them on a dirty counter top either

The Blood Talons come in quite handy for scraping off the baked on grease.

**thehod**

What about units that get Lashed? Do they count as 3 KP since they had the potential to move more than 6' during a single phase?

**I grappled the shoggoth**

I personally would say no to units that can get lashed giving up 3 KPs. As the unit itself cannot move more then 6 on its own. If it plays against an army not including lash, such as a non chaos force, then it will not move more then 6. I am also basing this on the premise that transports give up 3 KPs, but the squads they are bought for only give up one, assuming the squad can only move 6.

**Clthomps**

thehod wrote:What about units that get Lashed? Do they count as 3 KP since they had the potential to move more than 6' during a single phase?

Thats exactly what I was going to bring up. By raw you don't even have to hit the unit with the lash. All of the opponents infantry have the potential to move 7" by virtue of you including the spell in your list.

I honestly hope they fix these issues before the semis at least.

**puma713**

Kirasu wrote:Im pretty sure my dreadnoughts cannot scour.. However I have not officially tested them on a dirty counter top either

I lol'ed.

**Janthkin**

Clthomps wrote:
thehod wrote:What about units that get Lashed? Do they count as 3 KP since they had the potential to move more than 6' during a single phase?

Thats exactly what I was going to bring up. By raw you don't even have to hit the unit with the lash. All of the opponents infantry have the potential to move 7" by virtue of you including the spell in your list.

I honestly hope they fix these issues before the semis at least.

Given the "Gate of Infinity" and Monolith examples provided, I don't think so.

**Kirasu**

The word potential is an awful word, period.. Whoever wrote that needs some better comprehension or foresight

**I grappled the shoggoth**

Is there any way a mawloc can move a unit more then six inches when it burrows in on it? Like if the squad is spread out, and they only have one way to go, but the majority must move 6.1 inches or more to get there.

**Krak_kirby**

The common sense answer is that units must be able to move 6" plus under their own motive power to count as 3KP. If you are transported through a monolith, gated somewhere, arriving by pod, being lashed or pushed out of the way, or riding in a transport, you count as 1KP (2 for HQ). If you are the pod, transport, IC with gate type power, bike, jump infantry or anything else that can go faster under it's own power then you give up 3KP.

Of course GW and common sense are mutually exclusive terms most of the time...

**frgsinwntr**

thehod wrote:Dark Angels Landspeeders score IIRC.

Codex > Rulebook

This is completely WRONG. (not trying to be harsh.. just making a point)

The dark angels codex says what is a troop choice, but does not mention what is a scoring unit.

The Rule book says that all troops score, UNLESS they are swarms or have an armor value.

Nowhere does the Rulebook contradict the DA codex. AND no where does the DA codex say they are scoring.

Of course... I don't have the DA codex on me so i am going by memory also, so if I am wrong and it does say they are scoring please quote that for me'

**don_mondo**

frgsinwntr wrote:
thehod wrote:Dark Angels Landspeeders score IIRC.

Codex > Rulebook

This is completely WRONG. (not trying to be harsh.. just making a point)

The dark angels codex says what is a troop choice, but does not mention what is a scoring unit.

The Rule book says that all troops score, UNLESS they are swarms or have an armor value.

Nowhere does the Rulebook contradict the DA codex. AND no where does the DA codex say they are scoring.

Of course... I don't have the DA codex on me so i am going by memory also, so if I am wrong and it does say they are scoring please quote that for me'

You might want to re-read your DA codex when you get a chance then, cause DA Landspeeders bought as part of a RW squadron or whatever it's called, are scoring.

**lixulana**

well drop pods when deployed count as moving cruising speed. cruising speed is defined as >6"

and as has been shown when GW says counts as they mean "it is". see using logan and wolf guard as troops among others.

so there for a deep striking vehicle ( drop pod) moves > 6" then become immobile when it hits the ground.

as a walker has no cruising speed the rule means nothing to them.

i wish i could participate but family comes first, and my foot slogger eldar would have ruled :-) 15 kps vs someone with 40+ i blew up 6 vehicles unit i win we can stop the game now :-)

**nosferatu1001**

Ravenwing Attack Squadron landspeeders ARE scoring, as the codex states so.

Before calling soneone completely wrong on something that has been chuckled about for the entire life of 5th ed, cehcking your codex would be a good idea

**Cannerus_The_Unbearable**

thehod wrote:What about units that get Lashed? Do they count as 3 KP since they had the potential to move more than 6' during a single phase?

My first thought

I was amused.

**shaunzo**

so anything with a 12 in. assualt also counts as 3 kp since it can move more than 6in. " in a single phase of the game turn" ? If so, bad news for T.Wolves.

**Kirasu**

If you're playing a drop pod list then call your store and see if the TO will be ruling in that insane way (3 kps for a drop pod is absurd).. if they are, dont go and go to a new store. Prelims have lots of places unless youre in the middle of the country I suppose

Can we please put this in the rule forum because I prefer all my crazy talk on fox news or in that forum so I can ignore it easier :(

**Mannahnin**

Thread savagely pruned of Drop Pods debate. New thread started in YMTC. I C&P’d several of the arguments. If yours didn’t make the cut, I’m sorry. Next time, send more whiskey.

**odmiller**

frgsinwntr wrote:
thehod wrote:Dark Angels Landspeeders score IIRC.

Codex > Rulebook

This is completely WRONG. (not trying to be harsh.. just making a point)

The dark angels codex says what is a troop choice, but does not mention what is a scoring unit.

The Rule book says that all troops score, UNLESS they are swarms or have an armor value.

Nowhere does the Rulebook contradict the DA codex. AND no where does the DA codex say they are scoring.

Of course... I don't have the DA codex on me so i am going by memory also, so if I am wrong and it does say they are scoring please quote that for me'

There's an often overlooked box on page 27 (or 29 I forget) of the DA codex specifically stating they are scoring.