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least i tried, lol. still this set of troops seems balanced, though for the brute maybe replace stubborn for fearless as long as their command is alive?

Honestly, I'd have to see the rest of the army, not just the troops to be 100% sure of how I would feel about it. 2 Troop choices does not an army make, because half the 'dexes I can think of off the top of my head have really amazing elites and sort of lackluster troops, while the other half of them are the exact opposite. Your troops are by far the most amazing things I can think of that passes for troop choices though, which is usually a bad sign. The only "Win button" I can think of that would go against them would be Hellhounds and heavy flamers. I also don't like that you can get a max of 3 missile launchers in one squad, or why this squad centered around being stealthy and agile would even burden themselves with heavy weapons anyway.

This is eh, for me...

We all like to pack a bunch of crap into our personal Codex armies, but this still looks like it's being taken too far as usual...

Assault pulse rifles? Infiltrate? BS/WS 4? Stronger rocket launchers and a buffed up heavy bolter made to be assault?

A squad with capabilities as this in the game should be around 40 points a model if not more, and definitely not be a troops choice.

GW made troop choices weakest afterall, and to mostly not have the best choice of equipment, and if this is the troop choices, I'd really not like to see the rest of the army...

grayspark, read the rest of the comments on this thread. Most of the discussion has been around the same things you brought up, and I don't feel like responding to the same post twice.

Oh, and 40 points a model is outrageous, there's no way in hell that these troops need a point adjustment that high.

What you've created is a glass hammer unit. It's powerful, EXTREMELY powerful when tooled up, but will tend to crumple if the enemy gets off the first shot.

Speed freeks would give this unit nightmares, as would heavy armor of any sort, as would DE, as would outflankers/infiltrators that pop up within range and tear into them immediately. However, given even one or two turns, this unit would be able to make its points back easily by occupying cover, sniping transports and exposed infantry, and then being a cast-iron **** to dig out of cover.

There are two things that keep them from being reasonably fairly priced; Combat Tactics, and two base attacks/two CCWs. The combination makes them extremely powerful close-combat troops. I think they would outfight similar point-values of Berserkers or BA Assault Marines quite easily.

If you drop one attack (either base or losing one CCW, doesn't matter) and Combat Tactics, I think they're fine. If you keep those, I think they ought to go up to 29-30 ppm, which basically forces the player to take small squads for shooting ability and support rather than big units for line combat.

I know I'm beating a dead horse but you have me wondering about the fluff , I do completely understand your reason. Anyways I think they are fairly balanced. They are shooty but not over the top. They can hold their own in HTH but I don't see them outclassing any dedicated HTH choice in any given army. For 422pts I could get two units of 25 Boyz with nob-klaw-pole and one killa Kan w/ big shoota.

Over powered? No

Do I want to see some finished models? Abso-freakin-lutely

PS- Could you at least tell us, are they Human, Humanoid or completely alien?

Thanks, i'm glad that at least some people don't think they're broken

They're mutants, actually, with enhanced skills and knowledge of combat, though they still look mostly human. I probably won't be making any models until I can find a model that looks close enough to what I want my army to look like, saving me work on conversion.

i still have to say i like them. hm if i wasn't so afraid of the hate (and the fact my custom codex is in third and early forth ed format) i'd post up my own custom codex