Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am also building a 750pt Tau army for a small tournament. My list so far looks like:

Shas'el - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, HW Multi-Tracker, Shield Gen(?). 107

2 Crisis Suits - Plasma, Missile Pod, Mutli-tracker - 104

12 Fire Warriors, Shas'ui, Markerlight, Bonding Knife, 145

13 Kroot - 91

Railhead, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pod - 155

5 Pathfinders
Devilfish w/Disruption Pod (put the FW's in here)


However I'm not too sure on the pathfinders and I'm wondering If i should fit in a broadside and some more FW's instead. The broadside could take over the anti-tank duties and let the hammerhead concentrate more on eliminating infantry models.

I think you'd be hard pressed to deal with a list containing three or more vehicles (yes I've seen lists with four). I also don't see much point in having a markerlight in your firewarrior squad. Once again, shield drones are superior to shield generators. Your hq should already have a 4+ cover save, and that drone is keeping your commander from a 50% chance at being blown to pieces by an S8+ weapon. Your hammerhead should have a multitracker allowing it to move and still fire both its weapons in addition to moving 12" and still fire its railgun.
One last thing of note, your points values for your crisis suits are wrong. They are 62 points each for a total of 124 points, pushing you way over the top. I'd stick with cheaper suit choices(in your case, you need deathrains), as plasma is not cost effective enough at 750 points.

I like how people put out words like Trolling when others don't agree with them. No one is trolling.

I'm simply saying that having more FW's on the table is more importand than having 1 extra transport.

So let me get this straight on your plan of action. You are loading up your FW's and using the Devil to block LOS to your JSJ suits. So from this list you have 3 suits, 1 Hammer firing at long range first turn. Thats it? You are playing a Tau list and you are only firing 4 things?

If a Tau player only shot one Str 10 and three Str 7's at me a turn I'm winning. All I need to do is fire my anti tank stuff at your hammerhead and just hope to stun it. I don't need to kill it, I just need to stop it from shooting.

Once your Hammerhead is down you are no longer that dangerous. Now I have to work at killing off your Suits. Because you are keeping your suits near your DF it's just as nice because I can go for them next.

We can go back and forth about what if situations. My list takes away 1 kill point and adds 1 Scoring unit. This alone makes the list better for missions.

Loosing a transport to gain another unit of FW isn't a good swap. Everything FW can do can be done better by correctly set up crisis suits. It may look like a good idea at the start of a game but as Farside down has said they are just to fragile. With BS3 they do less damage with shooting than a lot of other troops. Their long range becomes less of a bonus because by the time the other player has had 1 turn the will have moved closer to you so in the end you won't be in any better situation than the other player.

You said that once the hammer head is down you can focus on the suits and fish but with the right upgrades they should be able to survive a good amount of shots. The devilfish aren't the only cover on the table so there is a good chance the suits could be nowhere near the fish. What I believe Farsidedown meant was that they can be used as cover if neccessary.

Your list does drop one kill point and gain 1 scoring unit but at the cost of loosing a lot of your offensive abilities, and making all of your scoring units much easier to kill.

Farsidedown wrote:Firestorms(bc-mp-mt) are a little bit more difficult to get in effective range, but they're one of the most efficient setups you can have if you're using a devilfish to screen for them. Comparing them to firewarriors at 18"(firewarriors at 12" don't really count-they're getting assaulted and dying the next turn), they're both getting 1 shot for every 10 points spent, but the firestorm is able to remain mobile, jump out of line of site (and out of assault range), has superior toughness and armor, isn't dwindling down to 4 shots if it takes a wound, and to top it off, 2 of those shots are 7-4 with a range of 36".

Fireknives(pr-mp-mt) are another popular choice because of their ap2 weapon, but at 750 points are grossly inefficient.

Ok then - Would Deathrain or Firestorm be more effective at this level?

Farsidedown wrote:Since you're facing hordes, I'd say to try to fit 3 suits in (either deathrains or firestorms) in addition to your commander.

Sounds good - any suggestions as to what to cut down on to make up the extra points?

Farsidedown wrote:I would also recommend shield drones rather than shield generators for your broadsides (cover saves are easy enough to get, and you'd be better off throwing that insta death wound on a drone rather than taking a 50/50 chance at losing your suit) and putting them in a single group. For 5 points more than you're currently paying you could be running:

(1)XV88 Broadside Battle Suit Team Leader
-Advanced stabilization system- Hardwired target lock (for splitting fire)- Hardwired drone controller (shield drone)
(1)XV88 Broadside Battle Suit
-Advanced stabilization system

I recommend A-stabs, because they give you the ability to shuffle your suits 4-5 inches on average in order to catch a unit out in the open that might otherwise be out of los, shuffle out of los blocking terrain after a potential first turn alpha strike, and potentially dodge cc for another turn, all the while retaining the ability to fire. If they're not your cup of tea, targeting arrays are the same price. I tried both, and personally preferred the A-stabs.

The extra railgun shots would be useful, but is it worth losing the Hammerhead's submunition? I'll put them in as an option.

Farsidedown wrote:I noticed you decided to forego pathfinders, and might I say this: try out a small squad of 4 of them. Use them as a distractionary force (this means putting them on the opposite corner in your deployment zone from your broadsides-relax, they have a 36" range-or infiltrating them into a separate corner during a game of spearhead) That's right, try to draw as much fire (and potentially cc units) onto them as possible and away from your main force. If your opponent doesn't bite, punish them with markerlights that are suddenly causing your railguns to completely ignore cover or hit 35/36 of the time. If he does, that's fine-you just received an additional round or two before he reaches your lines. Just throwing this one out there. I know a lot of people are averse to featuring them at such a small points level, but I find that it works for me.

I've barely even looked at them, to be honest - I usually see them mentioned alongside Markerlights, which is something I don't think I'll need, so they just got overlooked. Might give them a try, then.

You lose no offensive and instead lose a defensive ability.

Devilfish are not turtles. With front of 12 and side of 11 they are bustable.

Lets go over missions.

2 + d3 Tokens. Ok you can only hope to hold 2 of them. So with only two scoring units you are in trouble.

Hold your objective. With the way you are making this list are you going to hold ground or run around? If you run around you can only hope to tie.

Kill Points. That will be a toss up because you are not putting FW's on the table.

I still don't count FW's as being fragile, specially with the bonus of 4+ cover all over the place. Just the awesome ability to rapid fire Str 5 weapons is awesome and a range of 30 inches is game changing. The only basic infantry unit that can fire first turn at the enemy without moving.

Basic Armour save of 40K is 4+. Only Power Armour is better. 5+ and 6+ are fragile.

No actually you can win by running around, that is the most common Tau tactic. Just because we don't run straight at the objectives doesn't meant we can't get them.

Most Tau aremies run around a lot then in the last two turns grab any uncontrolled objectives and possibly tank shock onto the remaining ones.

With only 2 Tranports they are going to get shot down before you can do that. Also if you are running around you are not in range to kill anything.

I wish I lived near you guys so that we could go to the table and see in person how this stuff turns out.

ie putting army vs army vs each mission to see how it works out.

At 750 points the game plays a lot differently than at higher points levels. A hammerhead at this level is threatened by meltas but gives a huge advantage over broadsides in that not many things need a S10 shot to take out. Tau were my first army and I've used them against a majority of armies (almost all except DE and Ork that I can think of). The hammerhead with submunitions against Guard and Tyranids is pure win. I run 2 hammerheads and a squad of broadsides at 1750/1850 range. Dropping 2 pieplates all over the place at S6 AP4 destroys all kinds of troops except for space marines. Even then you are wounding on a 2+ against space marines.

Now for the crisis suits loadout. Magnetize your weapons. You'll be changing them out and figuring out what works best for you. I enjoy the Helios (PR + FB + MT). It is a terminator/MC killer. Fireknife is nice but is the same price as helios and the weapons do not sync up appropriately (range wise). Deathrain is pure win versus transports (rhinos, wave serpents, etc). The third suit hard point on deathrains is open for personal choice. The targetting array is expensive pointwise for a minuscule increase in hitting percentage. A flamer (although not generally used) comes in handy when you do use it. If facing horde armies (which you will it seems) take it incase of outflankers or troops sitting in cover that need taken out. It saves you 6 points per model to use elsewhere and it all comes down to point efficiency. If you want to go to the extreme take a BSF with the Twin MPs. Save an additional point and you get to fire the first turn in DoW to try to pop incoming rhinos or Chimeras.

Markerlights on the firewarriors are generally useless. I haven't used them since I started playing. Pathfinders and Stealth Marker Teams are where you can use the markerlights to help out firewarrior teams in shooting. On that note save the points and give up the Shas'Ui status. The points it saves can normally get you extra squads or troops that give you a greater bonus than being able to regroup a single firewarrior squad.

Devilfish + Disruption Pods are amazing. Sure they are overpriced. It's an older codex - deal with it. Use it for cover and use the Kroot to deny deep strikers the area around it to prevent meltas from getting close (aka drop pods and assault troops).

Tau JSJ is insane. You will be able to contest. With piranhas this is even more crazy. A normal Tau tactic is is an enemy gets near you run away and shoot the entire time at it. Be very mobile. Keep pathfinders in cover and have them as a firebase while everything else moves around the board.

With most of our guns being 24"+ range it would take a pretty bad guess not to be in range. I also think that being able to acurately estimate the range of weapons is quite a good skill to have for playing Tau.

Rogueeyes got it perfectly with his/her last paragraph. If you can keep using JSJ, and the counts as fast vehicle upgrade all units can move and fire at least 1 weapon. This means you can keep your enemy out of CC range and in range of your guns.

I come back to the old saying. "Leaving FW's in a transport is a waste of firepower."

Elitest Jerk wrote:I come back to the old saying. "Leaving FW's in a transport is a waste of firepower."

It is an old saying. 4th edition old. I count trolling as merely assaulting someone's choice and giving back bad advice to back it up.

I never said run 2 devilfishes, I'm saying the points spent on that 3rd (or even 2nd) squad of firewarriors is a waste. A squad of 10 kroot can easily multicap, and you should be decimating your opponents force to the point that they can only cap one (or none-you have mobile suits and a devilfish completely capable of contesting).

AV12 is solid. Autocannons(chances are there's only one in their army) only pen on a 6. Krak missiles(same as the autocannon) on a 5. Even out in the open you're getting a 4+ save, and they're non AP1 weapons, so neither of these long range choices are dependable for stopping your transport at 750pts (in the case of the krak missile 1 shot is hitting 2/3 of the time, penetrating 1/3, ignoring cover 1/2, and rendering your vehicle useless(immobile, wreck, explode) 1/2: include glancing and it may be 3 whole games before one gets a result-to illustrate this I just sat down and rolled one such attack. It was 31 shots before I saw my second immobilized result. During that time I was also shaken twice.). Your opponent will be relying on melta, and you can use that knowledge to your advantage. I have had guys surrender to me turn 2 because I destroyed their melta carrying transports, and there was no way they'd be able to foot slog it to my lines before I tore them to pieces.

Back to RaptorKid

If you want to run a hammerhead, I would recommend that you go deathrain heavy. The problem I find with a hammerhead is that you aren't going to be moving your railgun much on a 4x4 board, and for around 20 points more you're getting a second railgun if you run broadsides. Sure you get a submunition, but that is only effective against GEQ and weaker. That said, if you are only going against hordes, feel free to stay with the hammerhead.

Farsidedown wrote:
Back to RaptorKid

If you want to run a hammerhead, I would recommend that you go deathrain heavy. The problem I find with a hammerhead is that you aren't going to be moving your railgun much on a 4x4 board, and for around 20 points more you're getting a second railgun if you run broadsides. Sure you get a submunition, but that is only effective against GEQ and weaker. That said, if you are only going against hordes, feel free to stay with the hammerhead.

That was partly my reasoning behind taking Broadsides originally, especially against IG. If I can take down as many tanks as possible first turn, that's most of the army's strength gone. Yeah, we do play on a 4x4 table, so Broadsides or a Hammerhead would spend the game stuck either in a corner, or against a table edge.

So my list is currently:

HQ:
XV8 Shas'o w/ TL MP, TA - 103 pts

Elites
XV8 Shas'ui w/ TL MP, TA - 53
XV8 Shas'ui w/ TL MP, TA - 53

Troops:
6 x FW - 60 pts
6 x FW - 60 pts

Devilfish w/ Disruption pod, MT, SMS - 115
Devilfish w/ Disruption pod, MT, SMS - 115

Heavy Support
Hammerhead w/ Railgun, SMS, Disruption pod, Multi-tracker - 175

Total: 734

OR

HQ:
XV8 Shas'o w/ TL MP, TA - 103 pts

Elites
XV8 Shas'ui w/ TL MP, TA - 53
XV8 Shas'ui w/ TL MP, TA - 53

Troops:
6 x FW - 60 pts
6 x FW - 60 pts

Devilfish w/ Disruption pod, MT, SMS - 115
Devilfish w/ Disruption pod, MT, SMS - 115

Heavy Support
XV88 w/ TA, Team Leader, Shield drone - 95
XV88 w/ TA - 75

Total: 729

I don't think I've missed anything, but I could well be wrong. Any more improvements that I should make?

@Raptorkid-Two very solid and very predictable lists you have there. I also compliment you on navigating he barrage of differing opinions.

Now my advice, Do as another has already suggested and build your suits with weapons magnetized. You are going to do a lot of weapon swapping before you find what is right for your playstyle. Notice how many different takes their are on how to build your list. This is because their is no one right way to build a list rather than just for your personal style. Think about this:

Some people are very defensive in nature and will tell you to deploy as far away as possible, others are more agressive and will tell you to send out line blockers while you manuveur your forces.
Some people use massed infantry fire of their FW and kroot while others hide them in their devilfish.

It all comes down to the tactics you want to employ.
Are you aware that a transport can effectively move two units across the board while allowing one to fire to full effect?

Do you know that Crisis suits can be (depending on the situation) decent for assaulting vehicles with rear armour 10?

Things like this are tricks you learn over time and will affect how you build your armies.

The point I am getting at is, "Don't be afraid to experiment". I find it funny that no one has figured out that Vespids and gundrones can be gold in 750 point games.

focusedfire wrote:@Raptorkid-Two very solid and very predictable lists you have there. I also compliment you on navigating he barrage of differing opinions.

Now my advice, Do as another has already suggested and build your suits with weapons magnetized. You are going to do a lot of weapon swapping before you find what is right for your playstyle. Notice how many different takes their are on how to build your list. This is because their is no one right way to build a list rather than just for your personal style.

Most definitely planning on doing this - might need to buy some more magnets, though.

focusedfire wrote:Think about this:
Some people are very defensive in nature and will tell you to deploy as far away as possible, others are more agressive and will tell you to send out line blockers while you manuveur your forces.
Some people use massed infantry fire of their FW and kroot while others hide them in their devilfish.

It all comes down to the tactics you want to employ.

It should be interesting trying to adapt, certainly, given that the majority of my experience is with BT.

focusedfire wrote:Are you aware that a transport can effectively move two units across the board while allowing one to fire to full effect?

Assuming you mean using it as cover for XV8s, yes.

focusedfire wrote:Do you know that Crisis suits can be (depending on the situation) decent for assaulting vehicles with rear armour 10?

I wasn't aware of that, but it's worth knowing. Thanks!

focusedfire wrote:Things like this are tricks you learn over time and will affect how you build your armies.

The point I am getting at is, "Don't be afraid to experiment". I find it funny that no one has figured out that Vespids and gundrones can be gold in 750 point games.

I hope so - should be a nice change from the 'drive - shoot - stab' tactics of BT. What makes the Vespids so good at this level?

Raptorkid wrote:

focusedfire wrote:Are you aware that a transport can effectively move two units across the board while allowing one to fire to full effect?

Assuming you mean using it as cover for XV8s, yes.

I was actually reffering to the Hop-Scotch method of using the side doors to first unload on one side of the vehicle, Load on the other, then move the skimmer over and to the other side of the now dis-embarked unit. This works really well for side stepping in a diagonal manner while allowing one of the units to fire to full effect.

Raptorkid wrote: I hope so - should be a nice change from the 'drive - shoot - stab' tactics of BT. What makes the Vespids so good at this level?

About the Vespids, They in and of them selves aren't really bad but are rather stuck in a FoC slot that has to much competition at higher point levels. In larger games you will buy either Pathfinders or Piranhas. But in low point games it is tough to justify spending the points on a unit that does no damage or only shoots one weapon at close range. It is here that the Vespids gain value as an inexpensive non-crisis unit. If you run a build that seeks to control the board by overwhelming your opponent with a bunch of Crisis monat targets, then the Vespids fit very nicely in such a build. Same goes for the Gundrones.

12 armour is not solid. With devilfish having side armour of 11 that you can't really protect.

Missile Launchers need only 4's to glance. Lascannons need 3. Melta's need 4's also and almost always pen w/in 2d6 range.

So lets go this way. Say both your transports get taken out. What is your plan? You now only have 12 FW's to to try to do something with.

W/ the 3 squads of 8 you are not screwed when your transport goes down.

More guns down range is the way to play Tau w/ small points. Spending points on fancy transports does not help you out.

Farsidedown wrote:I'm just going to pass all this off as you trolling once again.

Then we shouldn't feed the troll.


Must resist ... can't!


Okay, I'm goin' in!

=Elitist Jerk]FW's are the best basic troop in the game. They kill all basic transports.

WaveSerpents? Or do they *not* count as 'basic transports'?

Best basic troops are Space Wolves. Counter-charge, two CC weps and bolter. Basically equiped, it can take it out anything but a AV14. Meq, all that. Arguably, Plague Marines could be the best, but they get pricey.

Okay, now I feel dirty for continuing a silly discussion.

^And FW's have access to the EMP grenade. Then you say....., then he says......, ect, ect.....This argument is silly.

All units have their uses but debating Space Wolves and such isn't helping Raptorkid build effective Tau lists or learn how best to employ them.

Look. You can keep throwing troll around but I have good points. You are just not agreeing with them. I haven't insulted anyone or called anyone names. I have played Tau for over 6 years and two codex's. They were my first army and I can say that with killing Deamon Princes with Aun'shi and killing an Avatar in HTH with FW's, I know what I'm talking about.

Tau's ability to win games lies in FW's and Crisis Suits.

Doesn't the wave serpeants have 11 on the side armour? If so Str 5 weapons glance them, if not they will be the only basic transport that can't be hurt.

Using math to make a point.

12 FW fire w/ 6 hits.

6 more rolls that give you one glancing hit on armour 11.
1-3 chance to take a weapon or immobilize.

VS armour 10 you glance and pen.

Name me any other basic troop with no upgrades that can do this?

You can't. There for FW's are one of the best basic troops.

@Elitist- The Armor of a wave serp is 12 front 12 side and 10 rear.

@Brothererekose, Elitist, & Farside- Infantry assault rear armor but that means nothing in this case. Just as the front armour means nothing when using EMP Grenades. So this leaves just shooting which could be summed up with the following:

When it comes to handling AV 10-11 at long range there is no other basic scoring infantry unit that can match the FW's. If you take away the long range then the whole story changes due to other basic troops having access to meltas and other anti-tank gear.

I think we can all agree on that little summerization, "Wouldn't all of you agree on this?"

Yes. My discussion is about FW's being one of the best basic troop.
1. Range
2. Str 5

Once you go into options they lose ground. Marker Lights w/ Missiles can make up for no HW's but it's way expensive. Using ML's to aid other FW's to hit however makes them even more dangerous.

At low point games FW's are very impressive vs light armour and troops w/out things like FNP or 2+ armour saves.

At 750 points having 12 FW's is not a good idea at all.

1. Two 6 man squads die fast.
2. Only two scoring units.

focusedfire wrote:I was actually reffering to the Hop-Scotch method of using the side doors to first unload on one side of the vehicle, Load on the other, then move the skimmer over and to the other side of the now dis-embarked unit. This works really well for side stepping in a diagonal manner while allowing one of the units to fire to full effect.

I was completely unaware of that, so thanks for the tip.

focusedfire wrote:About the Vespids, They in and of them selves aren't really bad but are rather stuck in a FoC slot that has to much competition at higher point levels. In larger games you will buy either Pathfinders or Piranhas. But in low point games it is tough to justify spending the points on a unit that does no damage or only shoots one weapon at close range. It is here that the Vespids gain value as an inexpensive non-crisis unit. If you run a build that seeks to control the board by overwhelming your opponent with a bunch of Crisis monat targets, then the Vespids fit very nicely in such a build. Same goes for the Gundrones.

Ah, ok. I'll bear that in mind if I need to adapt my list to counter other armies.

BTW, When I say to full effect, I mean that the disembarked passengers will still count as having moved as per the rules for embarkation and disembarkation.

This is more about moving moving the units. You will find that this method works best with the FW's carrying carbines or split between 1 squad of each.

This trick will let you have an effective movement of about 14" per turn with these units.

Elitest:

1) Thanks for ignoring my point on 31 shots before a second immobilized result coming up (sure it needs a 4+ to glance, but it needs a 3+ to hit, you to not get a 4+ to save, and a 4+ (6 glancing) to stop it). I never even saw a wrecked or exploded result. Believe it or not, it's very difficult for your opponent to hit side armor when your vehicle is at the back of the map and generally facing it's single threat, that one long ranged S8 weapon. You're also not going to see many lascannons, and if you do, it's only one, and going to be focused on your broadsides/hammerhead.
2) A squad of 6 firewarriors is not going to die fast when it's in a transport.
3) A squad of 8 firewarriors however will be forced to take a ld test at the exact same time a squad of 6 would, and unlike the squad of 6, it can actually be shot at.
4) Regardless of how much better firewarriors basic weapons are than other troops, they are too expensive for what you're getting, and the points are best spent elsewhere.
5) Reiterating, your transport is not going to go down unless your opponent can get into melta range. With a vehicle that can move 12" and still fire, that's going to be very difficult.

Raptor:

1) I would recommend that you run a shas'el. The targeting array isn't even benefitting him since he's already at bs5.
2) If you're running SMS on your devilfish, you should invest 5 pts towards the targeting arrays.
3) I would still recommend that you run one more suit if possible.
4) If you're running broadsides, first have your team leader run a target lock so that they can split fire, and second consider fitting one or two firestorms (rather than deathrains) into your build to make up for the fact that you can't drop templates anymore.

focusedfire wrote:BTW, When I say to full effect, I mean that the disembarked passengers will still count as having moved as per the rules for embarkation and disembarkation.

This is more about moving moving the units. You will find that this method works best with the FW's carrying carbines or split between 1 squad of each.

This trick will let you have an effective movement of about 14" per turn with these units.

Ah, ok. I was going to use mostly Pulse Rifles, so that's worth knowing.

Farsidedown wrote:1) I would recommend that you run a shas'el. The targeting array isn't even benefitting him since he's already at bs5.

Completely overlooked that - I just copied the equipment across from the Shas'ui. I'll change that now.

Farsidedown wrote:2) If you're running SMS on your devilfish, you should invest 5 pts towards the targeting arrays.

Farsidedown wrote:3) I would still recommend that you run one more suit if possible.

Farsidedown wrote:second consider fitting one or two firestorms (rather than deathrains) into your build to make up for the fact that you can't drop templates anymore.

If I use Firestorms instead of Deathrains I can just about fit in another suit, if I don't take TA for the Devilfish.

Farsidedown wrote:4) If you're running broadsides, first have your team leader run a target lock so that they can split fire.

Done.

Elitest Jerk wrote:Yes. My discussion is about FW's being one of the best basic troop.
1. Range
2. Str 5

Once you go into options they lose ground.

Okay then, I apologize for the 'troll' comment, but you're really out in left field in claiming FWs as being the best basic troop. They're not even close to being *one* of the best.

When FWs are measured vs SM, they are found wanting. The following are not options: Weapon Skill, Init, Toughness, leadership, Armor, ATSKNF.

I don't mention BS 'cause MarkerLights compensate for that.


EJ, I like FWs and run at least 2 full units, but to claim that they're the best trooper in the game? Not when 5 of their stats are significantly lower than SM. I honestly don't feel that the Pulse Rifle's range and STR makes the *Fire Warrior* a better trooper.

Perhaps you could just stick with the claim that the PR is a better gun? *That* I'll get behind!

Brothererekose wrote:
Perhaps you could just stick with the claim that the PR is a better gun? *That* I'll get behind!

Same for me. 5-5 weaponry at 30" range can typically walk all over GEQ's, with the ability to wound on 2's and ignore armor, but at 10pts per unit? I'd rather have a devilfish with 7 bs4 5-5 shots than 2 and half more warriors (recognizing the 25 point upgrade to warfish vs cost of increasing size of a squad). Now if they were 8-9 points each, which I hope they are in the next codex, then I'd consider fielding quite a few more, but that is just wishful thinking, and we have to stick with the facts.

Raptorkid wrote:If I use Firestorms instead of Deathrains I can just about fit in another suit, if I don't take TA for the Devilfish.

Here's an idea, have one of your transports run the dumbfish setup, and have it either sit back where it's safe, or act as a screen for your warfish, this should give you the points you need to throw on that TA and have a bit of room left over to use on your suits however you need, maybe even keeping a deathrain or two if you so desire.

Farsidedown wrote:Here's an idea, have one of your transports run the dumbfish setup, and have it either sit back where it's safe, or act as a screen for your warfish, this should give you the points you need to throw on that TA and have a bit of room left over to use on your suits however you need, maybe even keeping a deathrain or two if you so desire.

Yeah, I could do. My main concern with having differently equipped Devilfish is that it gives an opponent a clear target, rather than having to choose each turn.