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I've been playing 40K for a while (~8 months, I think) as BT, and I fancy a change, so I'd like to start a Tau army. I usually play against Orks, IG and Tyranids (soon to change to BA). With this is mind, I'd like a list that is well equipped against heavy armour (the Russ in particular- I've lost count of the number of transports I've lost to that thing). I would also like to be able to change out some units for anti - horde.

As my main army is assault based, I have no idea what kind of list I should be looking at for a shooting based army, so this list will probably get torn apart by anyone with the slightest bit of Tau knowledge.

HQ:
XV8 Shas'O w/ MP, BC, MT - 104 pts

Elites
XV8 Shau'ui w/ MP, BC, MT - 59
XV8 Shau'ui w/ MP, BC, MT - 59

Troops:
6 x FW w/Bonded - 70 pts
6 x FW w/Bonded - 70 pts

Devilfish w/ Disruption pod - 85
Devilfish w/ Disruption pod - 85

Heavy Support
XV88 Shas'ui w/ Shield generator - 90
XV88 Shas'ui w/ Shield generator - 90

Total: 712, so there's a fair bit of room for adjustment.

Against horde armies, I'd probably drop the Broadsides for either more Fire Warriors, Crisis suits or a Hammerhead, just for the template. The shield generators are expensive for the Broadsides, but I'd be willing to be that they were the main target of my IG friend, as they're the biggest threat to his tanks.

Oh, and I'd prefer it if I could have a purely Tau list, as I'm not a fan of Kroot or Vespid.

So, if anyone has any suggestions, or just wants to point out the huge weaknesses I've doubtless created, I'd appreciate it.

1) I recommend changing the BCs on your suits plasma rifles. They fire less shots but higher strength and ap 2 (IIRC) is really useful. This loadout is especialy useful against BA (no armour saves, no FNP). Run the Shas'ui in 1 squad and have the Shas'o join them.

2) Troops are good, not sure if bonded is needed, (generally they are dead if they leave the fish) but worth taking if you have the points. In a 750 don't take more than 2 FW squads. None of our core are great so keep them to a minimum. Keep them in the transports at all time, and grap objectives in the last turn if neccessary.

3) Some people like Hammerheads, some people prefer Broadsides. I usually suggest Hammerheads with railguns, and I think it's much better than XV88s in this list. Everything else is fast so your broadsides are going to be too slow to keep up if you have to move. I suggest dropping both broadsides and getting a Hammerhead with all the upgrades, SMS, disruption pod, multi tracker. This is also beter than suits as it can use submunition if your facing a horde.

4) Use any extra points to give the Devilfish the following upgrades- Smart Missile systems, Multi tracker, Targeting Array, Multi tracker, and Disruption pods. These mean your fish are hard to kill, very fast, and can cause some reasonable damage (7 S5 AP5 shots). If they look in danger, just park them out of LOS and keep firing the SMS.

The key with this list is to out manouver the other player. As most of the weapons in this list have a good range and the suits can JSJ. This means it's possible to keep out of range of the enemy weapons while still being able to fire.

Targeting Array + TL-Missile Pods are also very good configuration for your suits. Less shots but more hits.

Too many points in transports. More troops.

Too many points in transports. More troops.

Thats the same as in most competitive Tau armies. Our transports are far better than the troops inside. If they weren't compulsory most Tau players wouldn't take any. Putting them inside expensive transports means they actually have a chance to survive to the end of the game and capture objectives.

Ok, so something more like this?

HQ:
XV8 Shas'O w/ MP, PR, MT - 110 pts

Elites
XV8 Shas'ui w/ MP, PR, MT - 65
XV8 Shas'ui w/ MP, PR, MT - 65

Troops:
6 x FW - 60 pts
6 x FW - 60 pts

Devilfish w/ Disruption pod, MT - 95
Devilfish w/ Disruption pod, MT - 95

Heavy Support
Hammerhead w/ Railgun, SMS, Disruption pod, Multi-tracker - 175

Which comes to 725. I would've added SMS to the Devilfish, but I can't find the option in the codex.

That's a shame about the Broadsides, as I really like the models. But if a Hammerhead would be better, I'll go with that.

Aetherse wrote:Targeting Array + TL-Missile Pods are also very good configuration for your suits. Less shots but more hits.

It's a possibility, but two S7 shots at best seems a little low to me. That said, the range of the Burst Cannon Plasma Rifle is quite short, so it might be worth it.

4M2A wrote:Run the Shas'ui in 1 squad and have the Shas'o join them.

Wouldn't this make them vulnerable to things like the Russ Battle Tank, as they can all be targeted in the same turn?

That list looks good. You have the points to give 1 fish SMS (see the Options paragraph under the devil fish entry).

Aetherse is right about TL MP and TA (called death rain) being good. Usually I find Fireknife (MT, PR, MP) is a good all rounder, and is the best base for an army. If you add more suits I reccomend at least 1 unit of deathrain (I usally run 2), as although they fire less shots they have better range and TL means they can reliably take out high toughness targets. They are also great at blowing up transports. 6 TL S7 can break open Rhinos and Chimera easily. Anything that is too hard for deathrains is probably something that should have a Hammerhead firing at it.

Wouldn't this make them vulnerable to things like the Russ Battle Tank, as they can all be targeted in the same turn?

Yes but there isn't much you can do to stop that other than stay out of LOS. If the Shas'o is alone it will get killed very fast. Plasma guns and other similar weapons will wound it easily, give no armour and instant kill it. S6+ and AP3 weapons are much more common than battlecannons. Plus if you see a LRBT it should be the priority of the Hammerhead.

4M2A wrote:That list looks good. You have the points to give 1 fish SMS (see the Options paragraph under the devil fish entry).

I would have thought it would be, but I only see sensor spines, targeting array, multi-tracker, blacksun filter, target lock, pair of gun drones, flechette discharger, disruption pod, decoy launchers and seeker missiles in vehicle upgrades?

4M2A wrote:Aetherse is right about TL MP and TA (called death rain) being good. Usually I find Fireknife (MT, PR, MP) is a good all rounder, and is the best base for an army. If you add more suits I reccomend at least 1 unit of deathrain (I usally run 2), as although they fire less shots they have better range and TL means they can reliably take out high toughness targets. They are also great at blowing up transports. 6 TL S7 can break open Rhinos and Chimera easily. Anything that is too hard for deathrains is probably something that should have a Hammerhead firing at it.

Ah, that's what Fireknives are - That would've helped when looking through the lists on here. So if in doubt, take Fireknives? I can't see us playing games of any higher than 1000, but I'll bear the Deathrains in mind, along with another Hammerhead.

4M2A wrote:Yes but there isn't much you can do to stop that other than stay out of LOS. If the Shas'o is alone it will get killed very fast. Plasma guns and other similar weapons will wound it easily, give no armour and instant kill it. S6+ and AP3 weapons are much more common than battlecannons. Plus if you see a LRBT it should be the priority of the Hammerhead.

Fair enough, then. If I find myself with enough points left over, is it worth it to give the Shas'o any shield drones?

Oh, and regarding the Hammerhead - Does the Skyray kit still come with all the Hammerhead parts? Since they're the same price, I may as well get the extra bit of versatility if it does.

1- yes, giving the squad a pair of shield drones is good. It makes them more resisitant to AP2 blasts.
2- Always buy the skyray. If you look on the internet there will be guides on magnetising it so you can choose either. The magnets don't cost much and it's much better than haveing to buy 2 (trust me I wish I had known this-not that i use skyrays much but having the option is nice.).

I know you said you aren't a fan of Kroot, but...
in smaller games they can work pretty darn good when outflanking. I'd suggest taking a small squad of 10 w/ hounds. This'll take away the need for two FW squads and you'll save points on the extra devilfish.
And you can always model your Kroot as ninja fire warriors or something, they really are too good not to use, especially in small games.
However, I assume you've made this list on what you have available to you. It seems pretty good atm.

First off this is not a competitive list. It's ok at best.

I'd put the Suits in one group so that you are not giving out 3 killpoints.

I'd put a TL on your Leader so he can shoot at another target than the other two he joins.

I'd go back to the two Broadsides making 1 a leader w/ a T/L. This way you can shoot at two seperate targets and only give up one victory point.

Take out one of the Transports and get 3 squads of 7 FW's.

As for transports being better then a squad of Tau. Lets go over the math.

1. Troops don't get stunned.
2. Troops have a range of 30 inches.
3. This 6 man sqaud hits on average 3 times a turn to the devilfish's 1.5.
4. Transports can't hold objectives.
5. 3 scoring units vice 2.
6. W/ such a small list you deploy to the middle and don't worry about flankers unless they come from the back board edge.

This is what I would do.

Farsight List so you have Bonding Knives for free.

Shas'o w/ 2 body guards
Shas'o has Flamer, MP, PR, MT, TL
Guards have MP, PR, MT

3 Squads of 8 FW's.
1 Devilfish w/ DP

2 Broadsides w/ leader
Leader MT, TL
Other MT

What does this list do for you? Has more options w/ the flamer on your leader if things get heary.

Has 7 more Str 5 shots. Thats 42 more shots then your other list.

Two Str 10 AP1 shots that can fire at two seperate squads/tanks.

First turn.
Two shots from Str 10 weapons at 2 tanks. MP's are able to shoot at two more light armour vehicles. With this list I can put down 4 tanks first turn.

It also has 1 less kill point and 1 more scoring unit.

Much better and way more competitive.

Kroot depend a lot on the list. From what I have seen you can either play Tau static or Mech. For static multiple Kroot squads are needed as shields to tie up enemies. They are ok as an offensive unit but if an enemy unit is in combat you can't shoot it, which isn't great.

For a mobile army (what the OP is going for) Kroot aren't very good. Their loose most of the positives, as anything that gets in your way when moving and sblocks LOS is bad, and they still tie up squads so you can't shoot them. Against enemies without any CC troops (e.g. IG) they can be worth taking but often they are a great addition. A lot of it is up to tastes.

4M2A wrote:1- yes, giving the squad a pair of shield drones is good. It makes them more resisitant to AP2 blasts.
2- Always buy the skyray. If you look on the internet there will be guides on magnetising it so you can choose either. The magnets don't cost much and it's much better than haveing to buy 2 (trust me I wish I had known this-not that i use skyrays much but having the option is nice.).

Ok, thanks. I find modelling to be the best part of creating an army, so having so much to magnetise should be fun.

Nightwatch wrote:I know you said you aren't a fan of Kroot, but...
in smaller games they can work pretty darn good when outflanking. I'd suggest taking a small squad of 10 w/ hounds. This'll take away the need for two FW squads and you'll save points on the extra devilfish.
And you can always model your Kroot as ninja fire warriors or something, they really are too good not to use, especially in small games.
However, I assume you've made this list on what you have available to you. It seems pretty good atm.

Nope, I'm starting this from scratch, so I can try the Kroot that come in the Battleforce, as I'd be mad to not buy at least one.

There is also a mixed list. Tau are not a cookie cutter Mech or Static. I have won many a game with a mixed list and the one I have suggested above is a mixed list.

Elitest Jerk wrote:

1. Troops don't get stunned.
2. Troops have a range of 30 inches.
3. This 6 man sqaud hits on average 3 times a turn to the devilfish's 1.5.
4. Transports can't hold objectives.
5. 3 scoring units vice 2.
6. W/ such a small list you deploy to the middle and don't worry about flankers unless they come from the back board edge.

1) But they can get pinned, they can fall back, and die to more weapons than a Devilfish. High strength weapons are needed to take down a devilfish. Even S2 can kill a fire warrior.
2) The devilfish can move and still shoot its burst cannon. The troops have to remain stationary to fire theirs. This makes up for the lost range.
3) That is true.
4)They can with a scoring unit inside of them. FW are scoring units. Where are you planning on putting them?
5)These 2 scoring units are protected with armour, while your 3 FW squads are not. See # 1.
6)What are you trying to say here? Explain please.

In short: yes, you get more shots.
However, devilfish provide an additional save and protection, and get them to where they need to go much faster.
The cost? A small amount of fire power, which can be released on the turn you disembark, if you disembark.

(Edited into last post but moved as it seems more relevant in new post)

@Elitestjerk

Why would the Shas' want to fire at a different squad. They have te same gear and so the same role. Tau work best when you focus fire, spliting fire is not usually a good idea. Most situations they will fire on the same target so it's a waste of points.

If you include Broadsides with TL as soon as the enemy get close (which they will usually try and do fast) you either move and give up shooting or fire and let them get to you and kill you in CC.

If you play FW without Devilfish they will kill more at the start but they will die very fast. A devilfish with Dpods has a good chance of survivng most incoming fire so can keep up the 7 shots a turn. You also need to be able to capture objectives so having dead FW is bad, most armies you will play use transports so they will drive up to and kill you in CC. There is a good chance you will need to grab an objective on the opponents side. Walking FW across the board isn't
going to end well.

You can't play a farsight list without farsight and he is ok at best and far too expensive for 750 points. He is meant to make the Tau better at combat but takes away kroot, so isn't great. His main use is a farsight bomb which isn't going to work at 750 points.

The list you suggested, will do well in the first turn but is very fragile. The FW and Broadsides will get shot up and run or killed in combat very easily.

What about having Broadsides for use against armies with very little in the way of CC units, and swapping them out for a Hammerhead otherwise?

I didn't see that requirment for the farsight list but the list I put is way better.


@Nightwatch
On those points you put down.

1] This is a war game. Being worried about loosing troops to S2 weapons is silly. Just so you know armour 12 and 11 is not high. A sniper rifle can take these down and plasma weapons will work. Asault Weapons also work.
2] No it doesn't make up for the long range in any way, shape or form. Can you Rapid fire with those weapons? Nope. Also FW's can move and shoot.
3] ---
4] Just because you can put a scoring unit in a vehicle don't make it cost effective at low point games. Not even close to being a point.
5] I don't know any person that puts Tau out in the open. Let me expand on this.

If you are leaving FW's in Transports you are going to lose. FW's need to be on the table shooting. Once things get bad you pick them up in the Devilfish and moved them. The other thing is this. The devilfish is a taxi now. So you are not limited to just moving one unit away.

6] W/ deploying your 2 FW's squads in a building or forest in the middle of the table you can move your third squad around to take any objective or contest it. Your Broadside also go in the middle in cover.

Now anyone wishing to out flank are not going to get a one turn move in and assault, unless from the rear.

Raptorkid wrote:Shas'O FireKnife

x2 FireKnife PR/MP/MT

At low point level games, the BC/MP/MT FireStorm adds a lot more fire power than the FireKnife. I'd run one of each or 2 FSs. Also, the PlasmaRifle's AP2 is rarely needed in lower point games. There won't be too many Armor 2+ targets like terminators or Oblits.

1k points and higher, then I go with a FK.

Raptorkid wrote:6 x FW - 60 pts

I didn't see it pointed out earlier by any other poster, but went you added a BK, the points were off. 5 FWs, plus an 'Ui team leader, with BK, would be 75 points.

Raptorkid wrote:Devilfish w/ Disruption pod, MT - 95
Devilfish w/ Disruption pod, MT -

If you're going to add the MT, why not add SMS** and a Target Array, for a full Warfish? If that sounds too pricey, then just have the DisPod. The drones' crappy guns don't really add much ... not worth the MT's points, IMHO.

Raptorkid wrote:Hammerhead w/ Railgun, SMS, Disruption pod, Multi-tracker - 175

I add Target Lock so the BCs nail infantry and the RG hits a tank.

Raptorkid wrote:Which comes to 725. I would've added SMS to the Devilfish, but I can't find the option in the codex.

**It's in the Vehicle Upgrade section.

Raptorkid wrote:That's a shame about the Broadsides, as I really like the models. But if a Hammerhead would be better, I'll go with that.

Both are good, each having a slightly different approach in how you use them. My list usually has one of each, but at a low level game, like your 750 list, the B-side's anti-T role is better taken by a HammerHead, because the HH can hose infantry a lot better. B-sides should only be included in 1k plus games.

Brothererekose wrote:At low point level games, the BC/MP/MT FireStorm adds a lot more fire power than the FireKnife. I'd run one of each or 2 FSs. Also, the PlasmaRifle's AP2 is rarely needed in lower point games. There won't be too many Armor 2+ targets like terminators or Oblits.

1k points and higher, then I go with a FK.

Ok, I'll switch back to that, then.

Brothererekose wrote:I didn't see it pointed out earlier by any other poster, but went you added a BK, the points were off. 5 FWs, plus an 'Ui team leader, with BK, would be 75 points.

I still make it 70 - I didn't add an 'ui (or I didn't intend to, at least).

Brothererekose wrote:If you're going to add the MT, why not add SMS** and a Target Array, for a full Warfish? If that sounds too pricey, then just have the DisPod. The drones' crappy guns don't really add much ... not worth the MT's points, IMHO.

**It's in the Vehicle Upgrade section.

I see the entries for it, just no costs.

Brothererekose wrote:I add Target Lock so the BCs nail infantry and the RG hits a tank.

Ok, I'll add that, then.

Brothererekose wrote:Both are good, each having a slightly different approach in how you use them. My list usually has one of each, but at a low level game, like your 750 list, the B-side's anti-T role is better taken by a HammerHead, because the HH can hose infantry a lot better. B-sides should only be included in 1k plus games.

Fair enough - Hammerhead it is!

If you magnetise suits then you can try stuff out yourself. We can all give our opinions on what works but Tau are very reactionary so are based a lot on your judgement. I reccomend playing a few games without the focus on winning, just to see wht works and what doesn't.

4M2A wrote:If you magnetise suits then you can try stuff out yourself. We can all give our opinions on what works but Tau are very reactionary so are based a lot on your judgement. I reccomend playing a few games without the focus on winning, just to see wht works and what doesn't.

Winning is a foreign concept to me, so I think I can manage that.

Brothererekose wrote:I didn't see it pointed out earlier by any other poster, but went you added a BK, the points were off. 5 FWs, plus an 'Ui team leader, with BK, would be 75 points.

Raptorkid wrote:I still make it 70 - I didn't add an 'ui (or I didn't intend to, at least).

If you don't add an 'Ui team leader, then there's no access to wargear, like BKs.

Okay, so 50 for 5 FWs. Without violating GW's Intellectual Property ... if you'll notice on page 36, the 'Ui says X+ points. So that's the FW point cost, plus the Ui upgrade. Then the cost of the BK. So:
FW cost Y, plus
Ui cost X, plus
BK cost Z.

Do you come up with 75 for the whole unit now?

Brothererekose wrote:If you're going to add the MT, why not add SMS** and a Target Array, for a full Warfish? If that sounds too pricey, then just have the DisPod. The drones' crappy guns don't really add much ... not worth the MT's points, IMHO.

**It's in the Vehicle Upgrade section.

Raptorkid wrote:I see the entries for it, just no costs.

Page 36, d'fish entry, under Options it has the cost. Page 27 has the description of SMS.

Elitest Jerk wrote:
1] This is a war game. Being worried about loosing troops to S2 weapons is silly. Just so you know armour 12 and 11 is not high. A sniper rifle can take these down and plasma weapons will work. Asault Weapons also work.
2] No it doesn't make up for the long range in any way, shape or form. Can you Rapid fire with those weapons? Nope. Also FW's can move and shoot.
3] ---
4] Just because you can put a scoring unit in a vehicle don't make it cost effective at low point games. Not even close to being a point.
5] I don't know any person that puts Tau out in the open. Let me expand on this.
6] W/ deploying your 2 FW's squads in a building or forest in the middle of the table you can move your third squad around to take any objective or contest it. Your Broadside also go in the middle in cover.

1) S2 weapons don't exist. That was just to make a point. S4 weapons, however, do exist-and typically in large quantities, and those are wounding your warriors 50% of the time, and puncturing their armor cover saves another 50% of the time. All it takes is 2 kills to force that leadership check, and almost half the time your warriors will fail that, and since you're trying to deploy as far away from your opponent as possible, they'll probably be fleeing off the board. Guaranteed if your opponent can shoot at your firewarriors, he will pour everything he has into them. Armor 12 (we're going to ignore the mention of 11 because you know how to position your fish) is pretty good, and combined with the disruption pod is going to last a nice long while. In my past 5 games, I've had it stunned once, and it went right back to work after that one turn. If there are any long range threats, your railguns should be dealing with them turn 1. If there are meltas, you should be killing them by the time they reach your lines.
2) You and your opponent deploy approximately 30" apart. Turn one all his troops are in transports and can't even be shot at by firewarriors. Turn 2, those transports should be down, and how far away are they? Just around 18", perfect range for your devilfish. Also, firewarriors can move and shoot, but are limited to a range of 12", and if whatever they rapid fire doesn't die (12 5-5 shots are not gonna do much to space marines. 6 are hitting, 4 are wounding, and maybe one or two are dying), guess what? You're getting assaulted next turn. A good general is not going to let you move for the 12" rapid fire without pulling you out into the open. (unless you're the one deploying from a devilfish)
3) If you run a dumbfish that's 1.5 hits in addition to the 2 twinlinked bs2 shots from the drones. If you run a warfish, however, that's 7 shots hitting 2/3 of the time (and 4 of those at 24")
4) If you actually have a shot turn one, leave your firewarriors out. The devilfish is there to whisk them away to safety, as you need them surviving a lot more than you need their 6 wimpy shots. Additionally, your "expensive" transport also acts as the perfect mobile LoS blocking terrain for your suits, multiplying the locations they can JSJ from.
5) 4+ cover for 4+ armor save troops is essentially "out in the open". Now 3+ (like what kroot get in forests) is a different story, but like I said, it only takes 2 wounds to force that leadership check (and cut their fire by 1/3), and it doesn't take but a single frag missile hitting home to deliver. That same missile would only be able to penetrate a devilfish (with a 4+ cover) on a 5+.
6) Not only is that 3rd squad out in the open, it's not shooting, and since so many points are invested into these troops, that's quite a bit going to waste. Also, how the hell are six wimpy, 6" moving, non CC, caught out in the open, firewarriors supposed to be contesting objectives without being completely minced???

I would personally recommend that if you're facing hordes to run at least 3 crisis suits. 2 in their own team and 1 attached to the commander. Either all firestorms or a firestorm and 2 deathrains. Monat suits are just not going to be able to deliver the killing power you need.

Found the problem - This borrowed codex appears to be 3rd edition. I feel legendarily stupid for not picking up on that now. Ok then, 75 points it is.

Edit: Especially with the lack of Vespids in this one. I think I need to start going to bed earlier.

Raptorkid wrote:Found the problem - This borrowed codex appears to be 3rd edition. I feel legendarily stupid for not picking up on that now. Ok then, 75 points it is.

Edit: Especially with the lack of Vespids in this one. I think I need to start going to bed earlier.

3rd ed book. That's funny.

Skimmers do not block LOS at all.

Saying that putting your troops in cover is just like having your armor save is just funny. No it's not like an armour save because AP4 weapons would kill you with no save. So that was a terrible way of making a point.

FW's are the best basic troop in the game. They kill all basic transports.

With a Tau first turn you can shoot at transports or troops. Also an army shooting everything at your FW's must be within 24 inches. Not many armies can do that.

Now the list I put down would work like this.

Deploy 2 squads of FW's and Broadsides in the center of the table in cover. Suits do the JSJ. Devilfish can either have the FW's inside to move and deploy or you can put the squad down and have the Transport ready in later turns to pick them up.

Pretty straight forward and you only have to worry about people that can outflank from the rear.

Elitest Jerk wrote:Skimmers do not block LOS at all.

Saying that putting your troops in cover is just like having your armor save is just funny. No it's not like an armour save because AP4 weapons would kill you with no save. So that was a terrible way of making a point.

FW's are the best basic troop in the game. They kill all basic transports.

With a Tau first turn you can shoot at transports or troops. Also an army shooting everything at your FW's must be within 24 inches. Not many armies can do that.

Now the list I put down would work like this.

Deploy 2 squads of FW's and Broadsides in the center of the table in cover. Suits do the JSJ. Devilfish can either have the FW's inside to move and deploy or you can put the squad down and have the Transport ready in later turns to pick them up.

Pretty straight forward and you only have to worry about people that can outflank from the rear.

Skimmers DO block LoS, unless you have them on a tall flight stand. They are regularly used to protect your suits. Once again, the mass majority of infantry weapons are AP5 or AP6, so that was a terrible point you made there. Either way, you're most likely getting a measly 4+ save and once you lose two guys, not only are you taking away 1/3 of your firepower, but (once again) you have a 5/11 chance of failing that ld test. And (once again) since they're near the back, they just fled off the board.

Firewarriors are some of the most overpriced infantry in the game, and their Str 5 weapons are only gonna glance a rhino at best, and on average you're going to need 18 shots to even damage said vehicle, and that's if it's not getting a cover save.

Ever heard of frag missile launchers? Those are 48" range (ap6 by the way) and will be hitting your troops first turn.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be sticking your firewarriors in cover. I'm saying you should be sticking a minimal squad in a fish and spending those points on something much better, like suits. If you want troops on the field, use kroot. There you're saving points on armor you don't need and getting a 3+ save in forests, which they don't need to take dt tests to move through, and when it comes time for close combat, they may actually do some damage before they die (and who knows? If they're charging they may win)

Well it has been awhile for me playing skimmers. What is the rule saying? That skimmers land at the end of their movement phase? That they are set on the table to block LOS behind them? So now FW's can't do the old deploy behind the Fish and fire. So Devilfish are not as good as they used to.

You don't put your FW's in a pile so you don't get hit by a bunch of template weapons. Basic game skills there.

I'm just going to pass all this off as you trolling once again.

When you want your devilfish to block los for suits, you set them at the rear of the transport. When you want your firewarriors performing a FoF while still receiving cover, you set them along the far side. I guess that's...how did you put it? Basic game skills there?

Would you like me to come up with a list other things that will be able to hit your firewarriors turn one? And while we're at it, are you really going to take a squad that's supposed to be moving around and capping objectives (where the hell are they moving anyways?) and spread them out 2" each?

But enough of this.

Firewarriors die. Easily. Suits on the other hand should be spending almost the entirety of the game out of LoS or out of range, and will continually deliver the fire you need. Especially deathrains(tl mp-ta). While your broadsides are busy taking out the heavies like predators (and from personal experience should be off in the corner, as far from your opponent as possible while cutting down angles and often times forcing your opponent to turn their side armor to the rest of your army to try to give themselves as good a chance as possible of surviving that 10-1 fire) those missile pods can easily clear the field of lighter transports.

Take a pair of deathrains for instance. 4 shots hitting 8/9 of the time and penetrating av11 1/3 of the time will almost always yield you a blow (stun/immobilize/wreck/explode) that is going to keep that rhino from moving towards your lines the next turn. When you need them to take down troops, they're wounding almost anything that isn't a monstrous creature on a 2+. Given that's 106 points for the pair, but then again that's going to be 4 high powered shots delivering on target the entirety of the game, and not quickly dwindling away as soon as turn 1.

Firestorms(bc-mp-mt) are a little bit more difficult to get in effective range, but they're one of the most efficient setups you can have if you're using a devilfish to screen for them. Comparing them to firewarriors at 18"(firewarriors at 12" don't really count-they're getting assaulted and dying the next turn), they're both getting 1 shot for every 10 points spent, but the firestorm is able to remain mobile, jump out of line of site (and out of assault range), has superior toughness and armor, isn't dwindling down to 4 shots if it takes a wound, and to top it off, 2 of those shots are 7-4 with a range of 36".

Fireknives(pr-mp-mt) are another popular choice because of their ap2 weapon, but at 750 points are grossly inefficient.

Since you're facing hordes, I'd say to try to fit 3 suits in (either deathrains or firestorms) in addition to your commander. I would also recommend shield drones rather than shield generators for your broadsides (cover saves are easy enough to get, and you'd be better off throwing that insta death wound on a drone rather than taking a 50/50 chance at losing your suit) and putting them in a single group. For 5 points more than you're currently paying you could be running:

(1)XV88 Broadside Battle Suit Team Leader
-Advanced stabilization system- Hardwired target lock (for splitting fire)- Hardwired drone controller (shield drone)
(1)XV88 Broadside Battle Suit
-Advanced stabilization system

I recommend A-stabs, because they give you the ability to shuffle your suits 4-5 inches on average in order to catch a unit out in the open that might otherwise be out of los, shuffle out of los blocking terrain after a potential first turn alpha strike, and potentially dodge cc for another turn, all the while retaining the ability to fire. If they're not your cup of tea, targeting arrays are the same price. I tried both, and personally preferred the A-stabs.

I noticed you decided to forego pathfinders, and might I say this: try out a small squad of 4 of them. Use them as a distractionary force (this means putting them on the opposite corner in your deployment zone from your broadsides-relax, they have a 36" range-or infiltrating them into a separate corner during a game of spearhead) That's right, try to draw as much fire (and potentially cc units) onto them as possible and away from your main force. If your opponent doesn't bite, punish them with markerlights that are suddenly causing your railguns to completely ignore cover or hit 35/36 of the time. If he does, that's fine-you just received an additional round or two before he reaches your lines. Just throwing this one out there. I know a lot of people are averse to featuring them at such a small points level, but I find that it works for me.