Can SM reproduce

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**felixthecat345**

If a marine has a penis and can inpregnate women, I don't think the woman would survive childbirth. Or the sex, for that matter

They probably can't, in all seriousness, because otherwise the IoM would create female SM to have lots of baby SMs

**Space_Potato**

A Space Marine doesn't have sex. He fires hit boltgun at the chosen female, and somewhere between the 12th and 18th bolter volley, his seed is planted.

S_P

**camboyaz**

Yes but what if there was a female SM, or possible a extremly tough SoB, could the Space Marine then reproduce? Also with the Gene-Seed being the genetics, does that make them the Emporers great-great-great grandkid?

**Melissia**

Sisters are humans, and therefor "an extremely tough Sister" would be "an extremely tough human".

I should repeat, and it is unfortunate that I feel I must do so, the following phrase:

"Astartes have greatly enhanced muscles and bones, not boners."

Assuming they even HAVE them.

**Shadowbrand**

Ok, I'll ask again.

If Marine's can't have sex, then why does it say Lukas the trickster slept with a dozen women in one night?

I'm dead serious.

**Melissia**

Because he has a very good tongue?

**Klawz**

camboyaz wrote:Yes but what if there was a female SM, or possible a extremly tough SoB, could the Space Marine then reproduce? Also with the Gene-Seed being the genetics, does that make them the Emporers great-great-great grandkid?

Stop drooling

**Chongara**

Shadowbrand wrote:Ok, I'll ask again.

If Marine's can't have sex, then why does it say Lukas the trickster slept with a dozen women in one night?

I'm dead serious.

The wording makes it seem as though that was pre-Ascension. Even then it's a fairly stupid piece of fluff, "Hurr, Hurr! Look at our cool character, proving his manhood through the consumption of women! Hurr!". If it was post-ascension it'd just contradict the assertions in that very same codex that the SWs never interact directly with the population of fenris, instead acting as mysterious god figures.

The way they describe the marine creation process leaves very little room for proper sexual function after the transformation is complete. Then again, the whole biology behind SMs is a little screwy. Even so the idea of "SUPER MAN = SUPER PENIS" is just plain... grating at best. I mean really folks, really?

Melissia wrote:Because he has a very good tongue?

Are you trying imply there are aspects of human sexuality not entirely centered around the all-mighty phallus? That's crazy talk!

**cadbren**

They probably can have sex, but like monks they don't. Chaos marines have no such problems with doing what they like. I believe their gene seed would effectively render them sterile however so while they can shoot, they'd be firing blanks. Their gene seed is the only way any part of them survives into the future.

**Shadowbrand**

@ Melissa

You just became my friend by making me laugh after a few drinks.

**farmersboy**

cadbren wrote:They probably can have sex, but like monks they don't.

That. I believe, is spot on.

Remember, Space Marines are religious soldiers, stormtroopers for the Holy Emperor. Their lives are full of worship, litanies, prayers and the like, both in combat and not. All the fluff describe their quarters as spartan, austere; their bases are often 'fortress monasteries'; they go on crusades. I'm sure they could if they wanted, but they don't out of choice, situation, training, conditioning etc etc.

As for the other points, SM's are still basically human and still need to eat and drink, and if you injest then you need to excrete. One of the early Inquisiter novels has Lexandro mumbling to Draqo that he's having problems with the waste facilty of his power armour - given that they can spend a theoretically unlimited time inside their armour it is assumed they don't need to take it off to take a pee of enjoy a quiet moment of contemplation!

**reds8n**

Shadowbrand wrote:Ok, I'll ask again.

If Marine's can't have sex, then why does it say Lukas the trickster slept with a dozen women in one night?

I'm dead serious.

Presumably that was prior to him being recruited to the ranks of the Astartes.

it'd just contradict the fact assertions in that very same codex that the SWs never interact directly with the population of fenris, instead acting as mysterious god figures.

Indeed.

**Emperors Faithful**

reds8n wrote:
Shadowbrand wrote:Ok, I'll ask again.

If Marine's can't have sex, then why does it say Lukas the trickster slept with a dozen women in one night?

I'm dead serious.

Presumably that was prior to him being recruited to the ranks of the Astartes.

it'd just contradict the fact assertions in that very same codex that the SWs never interact directly with the population of fenris, instead acting as mysterious god figures.

Indeed.

This makes good sense.

Melissia wrote:Because he has a very good tongue?

But this is better.

**Ailaros**

it'd just contradict the fact assertions in that very same codex that the SWs never interact directly with the population of fenris, instead acting as mysterious god figures.

Yeah, but Zeus banged a lot of mortal chicks in his day. Mysterious god-figures traditionally interact with people (or else how would they know of their existence?), just on their own terms.

so this all seems to boil down into three options.

1.) they have been castrated, either physically or chemically.

2.) they are capable of sexual reproduction, but their zygotes have been genetically tampered with, just like the rest of them, which means they can't have viable offspring with regular humans.

3.) they are capable of sexual reproduction, and their zygotes haven't been tampered with (making them genetic chimeras), which means that they can have offspring with regular humans, but said offspring is also just a regular human.

Personally, I could see #1, but I question why the bother. #2 seems silly. Why would they go to all the trouble of changing a marines genetics and then go to all the bother of changing the genetics of their reproductive organs? Clearly #1 would be easier and #3 would require no effort at all.

That's why I'd say it's probably #3. #3 requires no work, and allows their bodies to continually naturally produce testosterone, which is a necessary chemical in all beefcakes.

Plus, sex is useful. GW may not officially sanction it in the fluff, but I wouldn't be surprised if the imperium makes use of the band of Thebes effect, for example. Plus, if you've got children scattered across the imperium, it gives you more of an incentive to travel around the imperium to fight battles everywhere (I agree, we should rush to defend toe Cargas system and defend it as strongly as we possibly can. Each of us has like 100 children there that we need to defend). Plus, the aforementioned creation of stronger humans because before they became space marines they were strong humans.

I guess I can't see why the imperium would put so much effort into removing something so useful.

**Melissia**

To control them.

Marines are dangerous, and dangerously independent. They do not obey the wishes of the Imperium and are only loyal ot their own chapter over the Imperium. Therefor the Imperium has no reason to give them the ability to reproduce, and has every desire to make sure they don't become self-sufficient (And Marines aren't, by the way).

**Ailaros**

right, marines AREN'T self-replicating through sex, so why bother?

Plus, denying someone sex doesn't actually control them. Look at the entire history of the Catholic Church.

They already have more effective ways of control over marines, so why go to the bother of trying to control them sexually?

**reds8n**

Personally, I could see #1, but I question why the bother

To remove even the possibility.

They specifically don't want marines with attachments to people, as there's ever chance they may well be sent to kill those people in the future. Even those who interact more often with the people on their homeworld like the Salamanders, don't live with them like lodgers, They have thier own culture and goals.

Remember that most marines have a total of about 15 minutes a day spare time to themselves. The rest is spent in various forms of training.

Space Marines have very organised daily routines including combat duty, prayer and indoctrination sessions with very little free time. This lends itself well to the disciplined and monastic nature of the Space Marines. They also spend very little time resting, made possible by the training and implants.

0400 - Morning Prayer - Led by the Company Chaplain the Space Marines renew their oaths to the Emperor and the company relics are displayed. This time is also used to give out orders, announcements and other administrative tasks.
0500 - Morning Firing Rites - The Space Marines engage in target practice with their personal and squad weaponry, awards and punishments are dispensed for consistently good or poor accuracy respectively.
0700 - Battle Practice - Generally this is close quarters oriented, however live fire or hazardous environment training may be done instead (or as well).
1200 - Midday Prayer - In addition to prayer any injured Space Marines can report to the Apothecary.
1300 - Midday Meal - Normally local wildlife killed during the morning activities.
1315 - Tactical Indoctrination - This can take many forms, from information on a new alien species or technology to strategy. A debrief of the morning's battle is common as well.
1500 - Battle Practice - This focuses more on combined tactics in conjunction with vehicles, Dreadnoughts and devastator squads and normally includes a trial of a new tactic introduced during the tactical indoctrination.
2000 - Evening Prayer - In addition to prayer, gene-seed testing may occur at this point.
2100 - Evening Meal - A feast (by normal human standards) is provided by the Chapter serfs, and some Chapter Masters may allow alcohol to be consumed.
2130 - Night Firing Exercises - If the chapter is based on a planet where there is no perceptible night or they are based on a fleet, firing exercises are under taken in exotic environments such as underwater, through dense fog or smoke or in zero gravity.
2315 - Maintenance Rituals - Each Space Marine is expected to maintain his own power armour and weapons, and it is often checked by the Chapter's Techmarines.
2345 - Free Time - Space Marines are permitted this time to reflect upon their duty to The Emperor, however many Chapter Masters regard free time as a frivolous waste, and a dangerous distraction in the extreme.
0000 - Rest Period - Space Marines are allocated 4 hours in which to sleep.

It should be noted that many chapters will not keep strictly by this agenda, and may shorten prayer times for example, or even cut out one of the activities in the list, such as free time, if the Chapter Masters do not approve of it.

Many chapters will rotate and randomise the daily schedule to keep the brethren alert and ready.

A lot of marines are very contemptous to/about non Astartes as well. There's every chance that even if they could most marines wouldn't want to pro create. Those desires are removed from them, it's one of the key horrors of the setting.

**Melissia**

The catholic church doesn't deny people sex.

**reds8n**

Ailaros wrote:

They already have more effective ways of control over marines, so why go to the bother of trying to control them sexually?

So they don't form attachments that would interfere with their orders.
The Imperium would like to control everything.

**Colossal Donkey**

reds8n wrote:So they don't form attachments that would interfere with their orders.

Like exterminatus break ups?

**ChrisWWII**

Wasn't their some old fluff that had the Space Wolves having female serfs/wenches for them to use in that manner? I think it'd fit in with their fluff for them to be able to have sex. Additionally, I was under the impression that the black carapace didn't cover their entire body, removing their genitals and everything......I always interpreted it as covering a large area (perhaps the entire back?) so that the Marine can link to his power armour like it was just an extentsion of his own body.

**Kilkrazy**

SMs can't pro create because they are n00bs in the battlefield of Venus.

**Colossal Donkey**

Kilkrazy wrote:SMs can't pro create because they are n00bs in the battlefield of Venus.

Well apart from those with access to a PF...

In the grim darkness of the far future the Power Fist has a second optional mode...

**Kilkrazy**

That's for BB on BB interaction.

**Colossal Donkey**

Kilkrazy wrote:That's for BB on BB interaction.

Roboute Guilliman wrote:
Codex Astartes:
page 7. Maintenance Of Equipment and Proper Usage Guide
page 7. Inducting New Recruits, The Final Process
page 7. Leisure time

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Colossal Donkey wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:That's for BB on BB interaction.

Roboute Guilliman wrote:
Codex Astartes:
page 7. Maintenance Of Equipment and Proper Usage Guide
page 7. Inducting New Recruits, The Final Process
page 7. Leisure time

I now see the Crimson Fists in a (w)hole new light...

see what I did there?

**KamikazeCanuck**

reds8n wrote:
Henners91 wrote:Don't Salamanders have kiddies?

No.

It's a long and well established part of the background that amrines cannot have children. Apart from their own genetic alterations they are also rendered sterile by some of the myriad of radiation treatments they undergo throughout their lives to mainatin the working order of their implants. If you go back far enough in fact the black carapace "smoothed" over the whole crotch area anyway, suggesting that their genitalia were originally removed. Seeing as how their armour and bodies work they wouldn't be needed.

Aside from that the psycho conditioning they go through removes the desire and, to an extent, the "need" to reproduce, the production of offspring and any "mate" not really being especially useful when trying to produce fanatical warriors monks. Lucius, as Slaanesh begins his seduction of him, does experience a mixed set of emotions at one point when confronted by a woman, but even then he's not quite sure what they actually entail or mean or are driving him to do.

In one of the early Ragnar stories he and his pack are working with a female and he has very vague memories of being attracted to women, but these feelings fade as the psycho conditioning takes hold. Remember that the normal marine recruitment age is about when puberty kicks in. The idea being very much -- see Watson's "Space Marine" novel -- that they take the sex drive and twist and distort it into a desire to kill and destroy.. it's all very Freudian really, especially in those days.

These days they have, understandably, moved away from delving not those areas so much, which is probably a wise move.

This guy has it right. I would add that Marines are indeed Impotent too. They take out their fustrations by killing thousands of people/things.

**reds8n**

ChrisWWII wrote:Wasn't their some old fluff that had the Space Wolves having female serfs/wenches for them to use in that manner?

Not that I can recall.

I think it'd fit in with their fluff for them to be able to have sex.

Why would it ? They've never done that in any of their fluff and neither has any other marine.

Additionally, I was under the impression that the black carapace didn't cover their entire body, removing their genitals and everything......I always interpreted it as covering a large area (perhaps the entire back?) so that the Marine can link to his power armour like it was just an extentsion of his own body.

The earliest and, AFAIK, only depiction of a "naked" marine had the black carapace covering most of the torso and the entirety of the crotch, like an uber tough under pants and vest combo.

**nobody**

I'm pretty sure the SW codex (current edition) has a bit where a Space Wolf takes a pass at one of the women on a planet he's on, and that's how he finds out the hard way that they aren't human.

**Lord of battles**

Yes it when one of the great companies as lost and never seen again, presumably they were daemons of slaanesh

**ChrisWWII**

reds8n wrote:

I think it'd fit in with their fluff for them to be able to have sex.

Why would it ? They've never done that in any of their fluff and neither has any other marine.

Well, I was thinking that in their role as Space Vikings they'd do the wench thing......but if there's a depiction of the black carapace covering the crotch as well, then I agree that I'm probably wrong on this point. I actually haven't read any of the SW fluff, and I'm going off hearsay here.....