Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ya, I don't think that you can ever have more then 12 pd because in a game I played last week this VC player rolled 12 for generating dice and was not allowed to channel with his Vamp Lord.

If this applies to other ways of generating dice, I'm not to sure, but I'm safe to think that it would.

Gonna need to have another look at the rule book again though.

Your pool of dice is limited to twelve. This does not apply to dice that are added to specific spell casts, such as:

-Slaan +1 Dice per spell
-DE Sac Dagger
-Skaven Warpstone Tokens
-Powerstone

I don't recall the exact wording, but by saying you "can't have more than 12 PD" that pretty much has to mean "at one time." Otherwise, it would count PD from other turns or any number of things. To "have" a PD is to have it currently.

As for errata - yes you are right, they can errata whatever they want.

But I think when a situation is very clear, and the only reason they would errata it is to make it less powerful, I would assume they are not going to errata it. Does anyone suspect they will errata the Hydra to cost 200 points? It would make it more balanced, but if I were going to assume one way or the other, I'd assume they wouldn't take this opportunity to randomly rebalance things. It makes the most sense that they will errata things that don't work or work unclearly under the new rules.

Im pretty sure its at any one time.

So say with darkelves you hit the 12 power dice.
You use 3 to cast a spell
You use two more to cast power of darkness and gain 4 back!!!
You are at 11
You cast a spell with 2
You cast power of darkness with 2 and gain 3 back!!!
You are now at 10

However, if the limitation to 12 PD only means a max of 12 at any given time, then the limitation is largely meaningless.

There are so many different ways to get additional power dice, that allowing someone to roll up 12 dice, use some, then enact an effect to gain more pretty much renders a 12 PD max pointless.

From what I have read, there is nothing in the rules concerning the PD max that indicates that subsequent actions in a magic phase can allow the number to go over the absolute limit of 12. Of course, the surrounding context of the rule leads me to interpret that 12 PD max to be on a per turn basis.

Now, like I said, I wouldn't be too terribly upset if I were wrong, as I play DE. Currently, with how I am interpreting this rule, I don't see any reason for me to ever run more than a single lvl 4 sorceress.

It is still a limitation because it means with +dice abilities, channelling, etc, you can't go over 12. It is in no way meaningless.

So, it's perfectly ok to nix +dice abilities like the Vampire Counts', but not to nix the +dice spells that DE & Daemons have?

I'm seeking the internal logic here.

My interpretation is that, regardless of where you get extra dice, you may never have (in total) more than 12 PD, whether the come as extra PD (like with VC), a magic item (power stones), a spell (power of darkness), or whatever.

The alternative interpretation put forth is that extra PD from items, skills or abilities cannot take you over 12 PD at the beginning of the turn, but spells or triggered abilities can add more later in the phase, effectively letting you have more than 12 PD to use during the phase.

I believe my interpretation is more elegant, as it doesn't require any finagling: 12 is the max you can use during your turn.

But see, that's the problem. The rule doesn't say you can only "use" 12 PD. It would have been very easy for them to say that.

The rule says you can never "have" more than 12 PD. That means, at the beginning of the turn or in the middle, you can't actually HAVE more than 12. That's all it means.

Your "more elegant" solution is nice, but it isn't what the book says.

You should go back and re-read the ruling in the new rule book. I did last night, and I am even more confident in my position now. I even bounced the discussion off of a half dozen or so other people playing WFB at the time (including two Dark Elf players), and they all agreed with my interpretation.

I meant to copy it down before I left, but I forgot. :(

A couple of quick responses to your earlier post first - do you believe that the lore of death bonus wouldn't provide anything if you rolled 6, 6 for the turn? Also, your solution requires bookkeeping throughout the phase, while the other simply provides you to be able to count to 12.

At any rate, you are the only person I've met that interprets it that way, including most everyone that's posted here. I've read it in the book twice now. The first time I read it, I thought for a second it went as you said. But upon closer inspection, I decided the other way.

I did a quick search and every summary I've read agrees:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/297363.page
"You cannot channel over 12 power or dispel dice. Other effects may be used to replenish the power dice pool later on once some dice have been used, like Dark Elves' spell and Lore of Death's effects, and presumably the Slann's extra dice. "

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/300693.page
"Can only hold 12 power dice at one time, "


No worries, none of this is authoritative and it'll probably be mentioned in the pdfs. If not, we'll start a poll

I rescind my position, and I'm both happy and horrified by the repercussions for my DE.

I think my original thought process was based on trying to make the game balanced, but since when has GW ever really given any thought to game balance? They write their rules based more upon fluff than anything, though sometimes their rules and their fluff don't even match up.

Looks like some armies (Daemons, DE, etc.) are going to have the ability to have some seriously devastating magic phases. My 7th Ed. DE army under current rules could theoretically pull 20 PD while only granting 6 DD to my opponent (who can only have one dispel scroll). And, honestly, a sub-maximal roll may be even better.

It makes me feel almost dirty.

Wow, I can't believe I convinced someone on the internet.

One thing to remember is that you will almost always throw two power dice at least at power of darkness, because you don't want to risk a natural 1 or 2 and have that wizard shut down.

But yes, I think in general the rumors of the magic armys demise have been greatly exaggerated.