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Frazz, you are clearly in need of some dire dosages of your own "reading comprehension" prescription.

I wish Frazzled was wrong, but after being yelled at a half dozen times over the years, sometimes involving profanity and threats of lawyers, and once a team of police officers brought along to press charges, I've learned that parents can be just bug-assed crazy when in 'defense' of their child. Many times it's the worst behaving kid that has the worst parents.

Kids get into arguements all the time in the shop. Some don't handle it well. I talk to them, explain the rules. Kid goes home, story changes. Suddenly I'm an accessory to the other kid cheating him. Worse, I make money off the other kid cheating him, what kind of a monster am I?

It doesn't matter how reasonable you are. You're an outsider critisizing their child. Might be they are reasonable. Might be they drive they don't appreciate the interest you've taken in their child, and give you the Frazzled treatment.

So punk, you feeling lucky? Cus it's a roll of the dice as to how the she-bear reacts.

mikhaila wrote:I wish Frazzled was wrong, but after being yelled at a half dozen times over the years, sometimes involving profanity and threats of lawyers, and once a team of police officers brought along to press charges, I've learned that parents can be just bug-assed crazy when in 'defense' of their child. Many times it's the worst behaving kid that has the worst parents.

Kids get into arguements all the time in the shop. Some don't handle it well. I talk to them, explain the rules. Kid goes home, story changes. Suddenly I'm an accessory to the other kid cheating him. Worse, I make money off the other kid cheating him, what kind of a monster am I?

It doesn't matter how reasonable you are. You're an outsider critisizing their child. Might be they are reasonable. Might be they drive they don't appreciate the interest you've taken in their child, and give you the Frazzled treatment.

So punk, you feeling lucky? Cus it's a roll of the dice as to how the she-bear reacts.

Thank you. Thats all I am trying to say.
translation: When the issue is their kids, parents are crazy.

I'll be off of Dakka for a while so you can pummel me all you want.

Well mikhaila, Frazz's fail, on my end, was in that I never said to bring up cheating.

I'm not saying parents aren't, as a general rule, horrible people. I think frazz alone shows that having children makes you unbearable.

Frazz seems to be implying not just that it's possible, but likely, that the OP would be the target of violence. That seems unlikely to me.

And Mikhaila, being in retail often simply means being the brunt of everybody's psychological venom. I had guys nearly take swings at me because they misused a product. When you deal with the general public, the odds of meeting people on their worst days goes up pretty dramatically.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:
Thank you. Thats all I am trying to say.
translation: When the issue is their kids, parents are crazy.

I'll be off of Dakka for a while so you can pummel me all you want.

Is it just me, or is it weird that Frazz is both Dakka's biggest "tough guy," and it's whiniest emo kid?

Eh.. he's probably suspending himself again.

As I mentioned, I watched the dad play in the first round and he was a pretty cool guy that was playing just fine without any problems occurring.

I decided not to talk to the dad at the end of the tournament because he appeared to be pretty tense about the whole thing, and I am suspecting because his kid embarrassed the hell out of him.

The intent of the letter is just to let the manager know exactly what was happening on my table and to kinda leave the door open for the next time I come up to see if he wants to talk about it. I am not looking for a standings or points change for the tournament, just that he has a kid in his tournaments that if left unchecked is going to be a bigger problem.

I will see the manager this weekend when I visit the store again.

You're not getting it. I'd say thats how a father would react. You're talking like a dad would know anything about the game or culture. odds are he doesn't know anything about the game and is just a dad, who some punk teenager just said his kid was cheating. ZEveryone is acting like I'm saying this directly to the OT. You've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a damn.

Here's a test. Go to a soccer game. Lots of parents. Tell them their kid is cheating. get back to me on how they reacted.

That's why I specifically brought up the fact that his father had already corrected his son on the range of his Medusas, clearly indicating that he IS aware of the game. I specifically brought that up for this very reason.

If the dad was completely unaware of the situation, then no I wouldn't bring it up with him most likely. Not because I'd expect to get into some kind of physical altercation, but because I don't think it would be productive. Clearly this case is different, and while - as I said - I think talking to the store owner is the better route, I wouldn't expect the guy to react violently under the circumstances.

Here's what I'm talking about:

3. He tried to use his Medusa as range to the whole table, not 36", to which his dad even stepped in to tell him he had a Medusa and it was 36" just like he had used in the previous game against Eldar (pointing out that he knew it was 36" not table wide.)

decided not to talk to the dad at the end of the tournament because he appeared to be pretty tense about the whole thing, and I am suspecting because his kid embarrassed the hell out of him.

This is also key. Some guys really, really, don't like being embarassed. They take what you say about the kid personally. It was a good call to funnel the problem through the store owner. Hopefully they just work with him some on the rules, and tournament etiquette.

I don't understand how the OP had problems with this child.

Now, I've been watching 'The Dog Whisperer' - you should too. In it, Ceasar will teach you how to interact with small children and immature gamers. It's called remaining calm and assertive.

Don't argue with the child, simply tell the child how it is. Correct him when he makes mistakes. If he picks up '3's as hits, simply don't remove the models, and tell him that his models hit on '4's.

I see no reason to drag a TO, a store owner, or even the kid's father into it after the fact. Even in a tournament, a game is essentially between your opponent and you. You have to take the steps to address the problem as it occurs - that is when the child will learn. If you need, call the TO over as reinforcement during the game. But don't get upset or frustrated, just play the game correctly, and completely ignore his attempts to cheat.

The child is probably used to getting away with stuff because no one ever corrects him.

As an occasional TO, I would very much value this information, and would be appreciative.

It would give me an opportunity to reassure the OP that I will watch out for his enjoyment of future games.

And then I'd park a judge or myself right at that kids table for each game. I'd be there to check TLOS, cover saves, make sure dice are rolled right, and take the pressure off of a paying customer to officiate his own game.

Making people aware of a cheater or player with a reputation of dismal sportsmanship is valuable. Instant results will probably not happen. But if the store owner is smart and values customers, he may ask an employee to oversee this kid's games until he straightens out.

It is amazing how much cleaner and LESS stressful a game gets when a judge starts floating it. I look for pained facial expressions and then i head for that table.

I'll second the statement in regards to Texas parents. Being a youngster at Pokemon tournaments and having to play another kid with a parent/older sibling was rarely a fun experience. "Are you sure you can play that?" *motion to judge* "Can he use this?" then when little Timmy tries to play 14 energy cards in one turn with the father watching/cheating by helping, it was always fun to have to prove an adult outside of the game wrong.

mikhaila wrote:Many times it's the worst behaving kid that has the worst parents.

Everything else going on in this thread aside, this is the statement I agree with most.

Polonius wrote:No, you're right frazz. I'm thirty years old, and I've never met a single person that had a child. I was raised in an orphanage staffed entirely by childless orphans.

This is without a doubt one of the funniest things that I have ever read on this board. I simply had to say that. Also, regardless of the sarcasm of the above, you've made perfect sense.

@Frazzled Your so totally right. I'm not a father myself, but i've been in situations where i've had to confront parents about their little gak head children and they've never exploded on me, but none of them have civilly spoken to me.
The most common responses, no my child would not do that, or if i tell them to "fix" the problem, who are you to tell me how to parent. Overall i'd say your advice to go over the father's head is sound not just to avoid conflict, but if the father was there the father saw it, so if it was a problem to him he would have corrected it a while ago.

Frazzled wrote:I'll be off of Dakka for a while so you can pummel me all you want

Frazzled mod is not the bestest mod!

Anyhoo, back on-topic:

I am on Frazzled's side. While I don't have children, if any of my friends were accused of cheating, I would be more than ticked off. Not enough to make a scene, though I am socially gimped...

I fully believe parents would step in to defend their child, even if their child spun truths...

I think mikhaila makes a great point, which is probably what Frazz was trying to say, only in a more "Everything's bigger in Texas" manner

I also think the OP went about this in a wise way. I disagree with the point that you can just "tell the child what to do", Redbeard. The kid didn't sound that young. For example, what do you do if a kid just moves his models out of turn? You do have to stop and correct him, and you should do it calmly, but it might not be easy and/or enjoyable at all, depending on how spoiled the kid is.

This is why I love WHFB over 40k. Much, much less kids playing, from what I've seen. Not that I don't want them in the hobby... I just don't want to deal with this kind of drama! And that's not even considering the parents

Polonius wrote:I've been around many parents in the real world, just not the Reagan era action movie you seem to still be living in.

On subject, most bad kids are made, not born. Talking to parents about Jimmy usually confirms this hypothesis...although it's always worth a shot.

I guess I dont live in the same Texas that others live in. We had a cheating incident in "my" Texas, and I took the father aside let him know what I saw, and how it might lead to people not wanting to game with their child. The father said that he saw what had happened and would speak to the kid.

Frazzled wrote:

mikhaila wrote:I wish Frazzled was wrong, but after being yelled at a half dozen times over the years, sometimes involving profanity and threats of lawyers, and once a team of police officers brought along to press charges, I've learned that parents can be just bug-assed crazy when in 'defense' of their child. Many times it's the worst behaving kid that has the worst parents.

Kids get into arguements all the time in the shop. Some don't handle it well. I talk to them, explain the rules. Kid goes home, story changes. Suddenly I'm an accessory to the other kid cheating him. Worse, I make money off the other kid cheating him, what kind of a monster am I?

It doesn't matter how reasonable you are. You're an outsider critisizing their child. Might be they are reasonable. Might be they drive they don't appreciate the interest you've taken in their child, and give you the Frazzled treatment.

So punk, you feeling lucky? Cus it's a roll of the dice as to how the she-bear reacts.

Thank you. Thats all I am trying to say.
translation: When the issue is their kids, parents are crazy.

I'll be off of Dakka for a while so you can pummel me all you want.

Certainly, but only because you asked.

You are a dick and should never be a MOD. Your approach and tone in this thread plainly sucks and it is not the first time. you seriously need to grow up and possibly take a few parenting classes. It is parents like you that are allow this society to degrade because you cannot enterain the possibility that your precious little seed isn't perfect and cannot react and have a pleasant confrontation free discussion. The fact you think it is OK to reply in the manner and cannot have a sensible discussion with another adult over a potential concern that obvious could be ruining the enjoyment of multiple people tells me you are incredibly immature and really offer a sucky example to your child. Shame on you.

Here are your words:

Outside of game? You come up to me saying little Timmah is a cheater blah blah
" you. Who the do you think you are? Who the are you, having to get your jollies playing tlittle kids you ! Also why exactly are you playing with little toy soldiers you perv? Must not get out of your mom's basement very much. " If you even looked at me funny I'd have to unleash the weiners, and the Shanker hasn't bitten anyone in at least 3 days. Again God help you if SWMBO is around. She'll run over you with a minivan, and thats just parking... once she finds out and hears you, ooohhhh its gonna be bad....

Your pathetic attempts to try and make it seem like it is everyone else poor reader comprehension misunderstanding what you are saying make you look even less adult. Typical of the usual crap you posted in OT.

I will say it again. You are a dick and shouldn't be a MOD and one day when Yak finally wakes up and realizes it will make me a lot happier that you inane opinions won't be polluting this board with the authority of MOD behind them.

Well, somebody needed to say it.

Caaareful man, he's a Texan. He owns guns.

OT: You should beat the kid over the head with something large and heavy. That will cure his cheating problem.

Diplomacy! I'll drink that that.




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Locking thread.