Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Melissia wrote:THe content is not the same. At least two pages, containing special rules for Grey Knights, are missing. The PDF is unplayable because many special rules are undefined in it.

Well I guess continued argument about RAI is useless and we should just consider this a sneakier way of removing the codex and army entirely.

RAI? Heh.

No, I'm fairly sure the intent was to provide a codex for peopel who want to get into the army without having to print it, but then they fethed it up. And now people are arguing about it as if somehow they INTENDED to feth it up like somehow GW has that kind of capability to plan.

Honestly, part of me really really really would want to find out that they just accidentally cut too many pages out, but I know that since they covered up the portion on the land raider page, it had to be intentional. If they were to go back and fix the FoC page to put it back in there and define what is and isn't a Grey Knight, I'd be more inclined to take it seriously. I just can't help but think if they were seriously going to kill allies, they'd update the faq. They updated the Daemon one, why wouldn't they do this one too?

The intent (which I bet will be cleared up on GW's site tomorrow) is to remove allied inquisitor's with their unlimited range hoods and mystics and emperor's tarot. GW is responding to the mass whining coming out of big events like Ard Boyz and Adepticon.

DooDoo wrote:The intent (which I bet will be cleared up on GW's site tomorrow) is to remove allied inquisitor's with their unlimited range hoods and mystics and emperor's tarot. GW is responding to the mass whining coming out of big events like Ard Boyz and Adepticon.

Perhaps it will. If so, they're doing it wrong. I will be back then for further discussion.

oops double post

From what I said in the Rumors section:

To add to some of this silliness: I still have the PDF for Lord Commander Solar Macharius released by GW on their website. Can I use him in my IG army? It has the same weight as these releases by GW.


Edit:

Stupid double post. *Grumble Grumble*

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:From what I said in the Rumors section:

To add to some of this silliness: I still have the PDF for Lord Commander Solar Macharius released by GW on their website. Can I use him in my IG army? It has the same weight as these releases by GW.


Edit:

Stupid double post. *Grumble Grumble*

Sure, just show me a link to where that document is still currently housed on the GW website, thus showing it is a current document...

I'm glad I took French in high school 30+ years ago. I can just print out the French version of the pdf and say, see, it has allies in it.....................

DooDoo wrote:The intent (which I bet will be cleared up on GW's site tomorrow) is to remove allied inquisitor's with their unlimited range hoods and mystics and emperor's tarot. GW is responding to the mass whining coming out of big events like Ard Boyz and Adepticon.

WH didn't have their allies rules removed. Which means that Guard can still have unlimited range psychic hoods.

Hi, registered to post, so humor me.

Since the IG FAQ sheet still details Grey Knights allied units, presumably, the precedent for taking Codex: Daemon Hunters allies and viceaversa still applies, even if the specific article covering it may have been removed in this latest "printing."

Also, while the game is largely non-permissive on rules and what you can and can't do (It doesn't say don't do X doesn't mean you can do X) the game in function is largely permissive in the sense, you and the opponent can do whatever you want, unless a TO is leering over your shoulder (shh)

Melissia wrote:

DooDoo wrote:The intent (which I bet will be cleared up on GW's site tomorrow) is to remove allied inquisitor's with their unlimited range hoods and mystics and emperor's tarot. GW is responding to the mass whining coming out of big events like Ard Boyz and Adepticon.

WH didn't have their allies rules removed. Which means that Guard can still have unlimited range psychic hoods.

Perhaps I'm missing a reference some place, but where in the new PDF does WH still have allies rule?

Lol, I am reminded of the quote that goes something like "Never attribute to maliciousness what can be explained by stupidity."

I'm sure that someone here can correct this quote for me.

Also, I think the intent is to get rid of the allies rules specifically. Mainly because the new codicies are using them exploitatively in many employees opinions. When I was working at GW everyone wanted to think that the people playing the game were out there to have fun as friends and not play competitively with money/product on the line. Anyone who would try and speak about competitive play would get an eye roll and told something like, send those players to play at the FLGS or their homes and get them out of the stores.

This doesn't mean everyone was anti-competitive play but just that people should be playing for enjoyment more than anything else.

This is my feeling and I haven't worked there in like 10 months, so things could have changed. But when Space marines and IG came out there was a question about allies posed at the conference and the reply was, yeah you can still do it, but really we think that while the DH/WH should probably consider the allies the IG and SM don't really need them.

BlueDagger wrote:

Melissia wrote:

DooDoo wrote:The intent (which I bet will be cleared up on GW's site tomorrow) is to remove allied inquisitor's with their unlimited range hoods and mystics and emperor's tarot. GW is responding to the mass whining coming out of big events like Ard Boyz and Adepticon.

WH didn't have their allies rules removed. Which means that Guard can still have unlimited range psychic hoods.

Perhaps I'm missing a reference some place, but where in the new PDF does WH still have allies rule?

It was in one of the side bars.

DooDoo wrote:Will this new ruling need to be built into the INAT or is clear enough on its face I wonder?

If it is clear, INAT will change some things.

If it is unclear, INAT will change some things, leave some things unclear, and do the hokey-pokey. YakFace will adamantly protest on the forums against any complaints over the inconsistent rulings....and, at the end of the day we're all stuck arguing about the arbitrary tourny rulings for our little toy soldiers.

Don't forget to mark them as "clarification"!

Only GW could feth up the release of a book that has been out 10 years.

Melissia wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:

Melissia wrote:

DooDoo wrote:The intent (which I bet will be cleared up on GW's site tomorrow) is to remove allied inquisitor's with their unlimited range hoods and mystics and emperor's tarot. GW is responding to the mass whining coming out of big events like Ard Boyz and Adepticon.

WH didn't have their allies rules removed. Which means that Guard can still have unlimited range psychic hoods.

Perhaps I'm missing a reference some place, but where in the new PDF does WH still have allies rule?

It was in one of the side bars.

Finally got around to DLing it myself. Page sixteen, in the side bar. WH can still ally.

Correct Melissia I see where you are saying now. Page 16 of the WH dex has the allies info. I wasn't too familiar with allies rule in the first place, but with that side bar you have to take 1HQ and 2troop from the WH dex and the rest can be SM (if you didn't take SoB troops) or IG.

That correct?

Right, that's the WH half of allying.

IT looks like they covered up the "By the Authority of the Immortal Emperor of Mankind" page with some crappy Repentia art, however.

Too bad they could not do something smart by stating,

"Daemonhunters can no longer take allied units (i.e. Imperial Guard, SM, ect.)"

Can anyone contact GW with a clarrification on this?

Seriously, they should have a forum...

I know at least five people who have emailed GW about this subject. When one of them gets a response I imagine we'll all know in a short while.

Melissia wrote:I know at least five people who have emailed GW about this subject. When one of them gets a response I imagine we'll all know in a short while.

And when the 2nd person gets the opposite, the rabble will begin anew!

Gwar! wrote:

Melissia wrote:I know at least five people who have emailed GW about this subject. When one of them gets a response I imagine we'll all know in a short while.

And when the 2nd person gets the opposite, the rabble will begin anew!

Of course!

This wouldn't be GW if we expected a CONSISTENT answer.

I just did a side by side comparison. Here are the key differences for those of you who don't have the books or are combing the thread trying to figure out what is going on:

Daemonhunters:

Page 20 - which contains the force org chart, has been removed in the PDF

Page 21 - which gives the rules for using Daemonhunters as allies, has been completely removed.

Page 30-31 - the box that spreads across the pages listing which units from other armies can be taken as allies in a daemonhunter army has been covered over with artwork. Interpret this how you wish, but it was clearly not an accident.

Witch Hunters:

Page 25 - which gives the rules for using witch hunters as allies in other imperial armies has been removed. Curiously, page 24, with the force org chart is still here.

Page 26 - which lists what units from IG and SM codexes can be taken in a witch hunter army is still completely intact in the PDF.

It is important to note that a witch hunter army can still take allies from other armies according to the PDF, but other armies (Space Marines, Imperial Guard) can NOT take witch hunter allies. Daemonhunters don't get to ally at all any way whatsoever.

I smell a precursor to Codex: Grey Knights and Codex: Inquisition.

Doesn't the spanish or french DH codex still have the two pages in it? *Goes and rummages the GD thread....*

ChrisCP wrote:Doesn't the spanish or french DH codex still have the two pages in it? *Goes and rummages the GD thread....*

That's relevant to French or Spanish speaking gaming groups, but not much help to anyone else.


It certainly appears that the codex has been updated deliberately. What that actually means, since the update renders the codex unplayable, is anyone's guess.

My guess is that we're supposed to use the updated version, but whoever did the edit didn't stop to think about whether or not they were cutting out anything important along with the allies and outdated rules sections.


It's also possible that those of us with actual printed codexes are supposed to keep using them, and the downloads are just for the benefit of anyone wanting to check them out... which as the rumours of them being redone continue to circulate, will be a slowly dwindling pool. But again, without stopping and thinking about whether or not the downloads are playable as is.


In practice, for casual gaming, it's really entirely up to you and your opponent. I can't see too many players having a problem with you continuing to use your printed codex as is.

For tournament play, it will be at the TO's discretion. If you're intending to use DH or WH in a tournie, just be sure to check the tournament pack for which version of their rules is in use for that event.

*Redundent*

So, something like ~5 non-English copies have the Allies still, but only the English copy does not.

That being said, why not just translate up a German or French copy? Might as well, since this was most likely just a Games Workshop screw-up.

em_en_oh_pee wrote:That being said, why not just translate up a German or French copy?

Or just keep using the printed codex instead...

Might as well, since this was most likely just a Games Workshop screw-up.

The fact that the allies section has been replaced, rather than just left out, suggests though that the screw-up is that the translated versions weren't edited properly before being uploaded.