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He means a powerfist in a squad that isn't on an independant character. Even if you are in direct base-to-base contact with a powerfist sgt, you can't specifically target him without a special rule. Attacks against him go to the squad.

nielsen333 wrote:apologies for my ignorance . . . But hidden powerfist? ? ? Aren't you supposed to play open? wouldn't not telling him constitute cheating?

I think by hidden they mean a big squad with a power fist in, so you can't kill the powerfist guy because you just take wounds on squad.
Correct me if im wrong.

I always equip squads with a purpose in mind.

there are 3 Sternguard Builds that are good.

Lightining Claw, 3(8 if a 10 man squad) Combi-flamers and 2 hvy Flamers. Hunting Infantry at close range followed by 12(27 if ten man) normal and 3 rerollable Power attacks in CC.

Powerfist, 3(8) Combi-Meltas, and 2 melta guns. For when you HAVE to kill that Tank. if all those Meltas fail then you have 9 Krak Grenades and 3 PF swings. a cheaper alternative to the PF are Melta Bombs for the Sergeant(if you face Walkers alot then the PF is better)

3(8) Combi-plasma, 2 plasma guns. MEQ and MCs beware. a Lightining Claw is good if you can afford it, will discourage assaults. OR instead of Plasma guns you can go for Cannons for the SAME COST . Longer range and Blast capability.

labmouse42 wrote:

tedurur wrote:A fist has a 1/9 chance of wrecking a walker. Id rather loose combat by one and then leave and blow the thing up

SimHammer even gives it a smaller chance, about 5.5% of destroying.

But that's one attack. Sternguard powerfists have 2 attacks, 3 on the charge, with a 10.8% and 15.76% chance of destroying, respectively.

labmouse42 wrote:

tedurur wrote:A fist has a 1/9 chance of wrecking a walker. Id rather loose combat by one and then leave and blow the thing up

SimHammer even gives it a smaller chance, about 5.5% of destroying. To mimic the results, test a Missle Launcher (STR 8) with BS of 3 (50% chance of hitting).
http://www.uma-musado.com/cgi-bin/mathHammer.cgi

That being said, I put the powerfists in squads to deal with independent characters, vehicles, and sweepers.

Yes but multiple attempts on SimHammer generate different results instead of simply giving an average. What I mean is try the same thing multiple times and it comes out with different numbers. It is more of a random number generator than an average calculator.

In my Drop Pod Marines list, I have two squads of Sternguards with Combi-Meltas. Both squads have a Fist on the Sarge. These squads are dropping so close, they know they're going to see CC, so a PF is a must.

the Simhammer thing does generate random numbers, BUT

it generates more then one try at once(Minimum of 10 attacks)

It does give an average.


set it to 10,000 rounds and you will in all likelyhood get an average result.

or you could maybe, I dont know...calculate the avarega instead? Averages are not difficult to calculate .

Anyway, I see people saying that a PF is a must so that you dont get tarpited by a walker or something like that. Id rather use combat tactics and blow the dread back to the stone age then stay in combat and hope to get lucky with a PF hit.
If you have Pedro ect in your army then Fists are needed and sometimes even good (when you are within his bubble)

I just use sternguard as min sized drop fodder, with meltas so they at least do something the one turn they probably have to live. If the enemy wants them dead (and a squad in their deployment zone with special ammo and meltas are high priority) they are going to die. They are still MEQs, so they probably will take multiple units of shooting to kill even as a small squad. So they are a great way to reduce pressure on the rest of the army for a turn (with drop pods, the critical first turn when you move to your optimal mid field fire bases). Going all out on upgrades with them is a good way to not have a rest of your army. They aren't terrible in combat, but they will never hold up to a real CC squad, so why bother? I've personally have beaten down even large squads with CC upgrades with SoB (Acts of Faith make any sister squads dangerous)... so its not exactly a unit meant for getting into the thick of melee. Save points on their unit, and spend them on something that CAN melee well if its that important for your list.

Personally I try to never take upgrades that "might" be useful. I go with making each unit able to preform its duty, any extra upgrades just temp you into deviating from their role. (often roles they aren't suited for) Since I make use of combat tactics, I see no point in making a shooting squad passable at combat.

Now it is temping to take a big squad of them in a drop pod and combat squad them when they come out. Its not actually a bad idea, except for I never seem to face opponents who let me deep strike SG next to 2 tanks, they generally spread them out, or better yet take bubble wrap infantry against drop pods. (like kroot, infantry platoons, and ork boyz) When I have to face other Meq, the only tanks they give me to kill are rhinos, which a full sqaud of SG is points inefficient. (well, land raiders are worth killing with SG, but a full unit with meltas is costing too much even up against that...)

Why don't you just give the sergeant meltabombs?