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Ahh. I think I misread your post. I thought you were indicating the Nobz weren't able to target Eldrad/Fuegan which had me scratching my head.

Well....I sort of was. If I were to charge an ork mob, I would only do so knowing I can get the warlocks in B2B with the pklaw nob, meaning he can only swing at the warlocks (since Eldrad and Fuegan are independent characters). Is this possible all the time? No, but again I don't play orks as much (since Niel is our main ork player), and I trust my shooting to deal with many of their units (3 destructors can be especially powerful).

This is also the nice bit of the falcon. Being hard to hit, and hard to knock down (holo-fields), orks have a really tough time dealing with them. I had a falcon take fire from 30 lootaz. It was immobilized and lost its 2 remaining weapons, but was still there (the shuriken cannon had already been removed). Be impossible to say that about a wave-serpent.

lixulana wrote:something no one has mentioned is that the eldar missle launcher is now stellar.

normal krak missle + str 4 ap 4 PINNING. so against non meq it pens armor + pinning checks.

i'm going to test this list tonight, just because i'm different and guardians are as point efficient as dires.

eldrad
farseer + doom + guide + fortune + stones
6 harlequin + master(power weapon) + seer + 5 kisses + 2 fusion
6 harlequin + master(power weapon) + seer + 5 kisses + 2 fusion
10 guardians + BL
10 guardians + BL
10 guardians + BL
10 guardians + missle
10 guardians + missle
10 guardians + missle
3 war walkers + missle/shuriken cannon
3 war walkers + missle/shuriken cannon
3 war walkers + missle/shuriken cannon

this is a little under about 1900 i think

drop eldrad and the farseer in with the harlequins the guardians will get 4+ cover from the harle's walkers shoot over everything or outflank.
turn 1, fortune both harles, guide all three walkers.
turn 2 fortune, guide/doom as needed
turn 3 fortune, doom

3 lances usually are enough unless i hit a land raider spam.


keep in mind that anything i'm shooting shuriken catapults at is doomed otehr wise i'm running away so with that in mind.

120 points = 10 dires = 12 guardians + missle

10 dires = 20 shots = 12.6 hits = 6.3 wounds = 2.1 meqs
12 guardians = 22 shots 11 hits 5.5 wounds = 1.8 + .4 meqs from missle = 2.2 dead meqs.

dire avengers get a save vs bolters but guardians can shoot from outside return fire range for 1-3 turns. and if you wanna shoot that las cannon at an 8 point dude go right ahead.

This list sucks.
Fast moving BA will make a mess out of this force.
You need at least an Avatar to be more resistant in cc.

A fast moving BA army will make a messs out of a lot of forces though.

Heck, an Avatar to make the mob of Guardians Fearless would be a neat addition to the above list. The question lies now: is Eldrad's considerable psyker support enough by itself to help the Harlies/Walkers? One power a turn would almost assuredly have to be reserved for Fortuning the Avatar, leaving two Dooms/Guides/one more Fortune.

I see the additional Farseer's purpose: it allows for flexible deployment, either babysitting the Harlies or standing by Walkers in cover. Handy. Is it worth NOT having the Avatar on call, though? If I owned more Guardians and War Walkers I would test this myself.

Wuesten's got a point, BHG. "Get in combat during turns 2 or 3" armies will present a great challenge to a stand-and-shoot list such as this one. Stuff that alpha-Deep Strikes will make it a pain to kill everything before it reaches ya. (Tyranids, Blangels, Drop-Podding SM are the greatest threats on paper, but there are other creative ways to get to your lines quickly.) Although, this list's greatest defense lies in its squishy Guardians. Feed the encroaching squads one or two Guardians squads, and, after the Guardians get trampled, unleash S6 hell on the offenders and Harlie the remainder. The Avatar would prevent Guardians within range from retreating, and keep them functioning after Khaine and a squad of Harlies rescue them. Thinking about it now, a third countercharge unit, with additional support for weak-willed troops, would perhaps go farther than the additional psyker. The Harlies will suffer as a result, but Eldrad *should* be able to grant them one or two Dooms per turn where needed.

This is a list to remember for when I have money to blow on 40k ^.^

Ail-Shan wrote:Well....I sort of was. If I were to charge an ork mob, I would only do so knowing I can get the warlocks in B2B with the pklaw nob, meaning he can only swing at the warlocks (since Eldrad and Fuegan are independent characters). Is this possible all the time? No, but again I don't play orks as much (since Niel is our main ork player), and I trust my shooting to deal with many of their units (3 destructors can be especially powerful).

This is also the nice bit of the falcon. Being hard to hit, and hard to knock down (holo-fields), orks have a really tough time dealing with them. I had a falcon take fire from 30 lootaz. It was immobilized and lost its 2 remaining weapons, but was still there (the shuriken cannon had already been removed). Be impossible to say that about a wave-serpent.

Remember though, if you get assaulted, IC's counter assault first.

Remember though, if you get assaulted, IC's counter assault first.

What exactly does that refer to as I don't know.

war walkers, guide, dire avengers, profit

Ail-Shan wrote:

Remember though, if you get assaulted, IC's counter assault first.

What exactly does that refer to as I don't know.

When you said that if you charged, you would position the warlocks inbetween.

IC's HAVE to react beforehand.

Just throwing it up there incase you didn't know.

Eldrad can take it either way!

And if I charge, I'm not reacting, hence the ICs don't have to go first, but that's beside the point. What I said I'd do is put the warlocks in B2B with the pklaw nob. That way the nob can't move to react, and therefore will not be in B2B with Fuegan or Eldrad, keeping them both safe.

So I'm probably going to be playing a few game tomorrow, guess I'm going to be trying a lot fo stuff out, will post feedback after.

The Bloody Handed God wrote:Lol. That was a bit funny, but please in the future try to contribute to the discussion instead of just pointing something like that out.

how is pointing out flaws with a unit contributing less than just posting a unit?

wuestenfux wrote:

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Another nasty unit-

Prince Yriel
Farseer
Fortune
7-10 Warlocks
Embolden 1-2, Enhance
Wave Serpent

Durable? Check!
Killing power? Check!
Tank busting power? Check!

I'd replace the Farseer by Eldrad.
This gives you two models that generally hit on 3+ and would on 2+ without armor saves.
While a Seer Council is the best anvil unit in the game, it becomes a hammer unit as well with Yriel and Eldrad.

You would also have to spend considreably more pts on the unit and on top of that you would loose fleet. While I dont like the foot council with a fortune seer, throwing Eldrad in the mix actually makes it worse for more pts. The error with the foot council does not lie in the unit itself but in the delivery system.

The delivery system of a Council on foot need not be a liability.
I'd let the Council disembark in round 2 giving it enough time to take on the enemy.
Its Serpent may have moved 24'' in turn 1 or two times 12'' in turn 1 or 2;
this eventually depends on the enemy and deployment.

Ended up not going, wasn't feeling well.

As for losing fleet, if you're using the standard foot council, they shouldnt be fleeting anyway. 1 you leave it up to chance they might be out of range and 2 you can't use destructor if you're fleeting. I've used seer councls before, both on foot and on bikes, you can't leave a foot council out of assault range, it's too big of a chance. That and you're probably going to need those destructors.

I've been experimenting with a shooty Eldar force based around an Alaitoc theme and have had decent success with them. Now I am not going to say that the list is the equivalent to a Tau gunline list but it does do nicely. The core of the force is a Farseer with accompanying Warlock support and 3 Pathfinder, 2 Guardian Squads ( 1 of which is a storm squad), 1 Dire Avenger unit and a Warwalker unit of 3 WW with mix between Scatter laser and Bright Lance.

That core gives you a good number of models and a lot of shots from multiple sources that can really benefit from the Farseer. The rest of the list of course can go to Wave Serpent/Falcon transported aspect warriors and I find that even a unit of HArlequins with this army works well.

The Bloody Handed God wrote:Ended up not going, wasn't feeling well.

As for losing fleet, if you're using the standard foot council, they shouldnt be fleeting anyway. 1 you leave it up to chance they might be out of range and 2 you can't use destructor if you're fleeting. I've used seer councls before, both on foot and on bikes, you can't leave a foot council out of assault range, it's too big of a chance. That and you're probably going to need those destructors.

Without fleet you have absolutly no chance to assault a competent. You have a unit which can move 12". What kind of player would let his units get charged by a council with that range? If you are more than 6 inches away you can simply back away and not get assaulted. If deploy your Serpent closer to them he will most likely just block the single access ramp which makes you unable to disembark unless you pivot or move your serpent again which in turn means no assault for you.

Destructor on a serpent council that has a farseer involved? No-no!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Generalstoner lives in NJ, what gaming store do you go to?

No no why?

Also, would 10 storm guardians with melta pistols and a warlock with spear in a cheap wave serpent be an ok alternative to firedragons? I mean 6 FD in a cheap waveserpent actually sounds better, but I was just wondering if anyone had tried it.

The Bloody Handed God wrote:No no why?

Also, would 10 storm guardians with melta pistols and a warlock with spear in a cheap wave serpent be an ok alternative to firedragons? I mean 6 FD in a cheap waveserpent actually sounds better, but I was just wondering if anyone had tried it.

Not really. It's scoring sure, though it has a high probability of biting it, and it costs more for less anti tank.

No-no since it quite frankly isn't effective, I can understand a unit if 3-5 without a farseer for a heavy flamer bomb, but having a few, as well as other psychic powers, is a little far-fetched...

Why though, I'm actually asking. I mean I've done it in an apoc game with Eldrad and 10 locks, they just flew around and killed stuff. I mean maybe it's only good in an Apoc game where there's so many things going on though. I also had a jetseer squadron in that game too, was fun.

The Bloody Handed God wrote:Why though, I'm actually asking. I mean I've done it in an apoc game with Eldrad and 10 locks, they just flew around and killed stuff. I mean maybe it's only good in an Apoc game where there's so many things going on though. I also had a jetseer squadron in that game too, was fun.

Yeah, apocalypse is hard to gauge things on. The thing is... is that you could have gotten more efficient choices for what you spent your points on.

10 Warlocks -250 base

Eldrad -210 points

Wave Serpent -110 points base

10 destructors -100 points

Spears -0~30

Trouble with the destructors is you can't hit your own models (including those in your own unit) when firing, so a lot of those destructors are wasted.

I have Eldrad with 5 warlocks (2 embolden and 3 destructors) in a falcon. Expensive (though not when compared with a large warlock squad in a serpent), but does quite a bit of damage and is unreasonably survivable (at least the falcon is, and a fortuned council, even only 5 locks strong, is a pain to remove). Eldrad usually stays in the falcon though, since I've found fleet increasingly necessary to get the council in combat. Even so, he can still support the army very well from there.

Um, I wasn't giving themall destructor. I'm not sure where that came from, I'd usually gibve maybe 3 out of 10 destructor.

I don't like fielding large seer councils. Though they can work I don't like how easy a wave serpent is to kill from down range (compared with a Falcon. I love my falcons). In addition they tie up a lot of your points without giving you much more (a squad of 5 can wreck tanks quite reliably and will be annoying to deal with. Increasing past that just allows you to take casualties, but the cost seems more than it's worth).

Combining the avatar with guardians is a double edged sword. As a MEQ the easiest possible way I know of killing the Avatar is to multi assault the Avatar and guardians at the same time.

2 Assault squads charge the avatar and 2 guardian squads in 1 giant melee.

The avatar only has 4 attacks. It goes 1st with 4 attacks 2/3 hit 5/6 wound resulting in 2 and 4/18ths Dead MEQ round up to 3.

1 Melta gunner attempts to hurt the avatar the only way possible with a melta gun, use it like a club to try to bash him in the knee. For simplicity's sake let's say he and 2 other marines in base contact with the avatar are removed as the avatar's I6 casualties.

Surviving marines will spit out 43 attacks against guardians. 2/3 hit 5/6 wound and 2/3 fail the armor saves. 20/54 attacks will cause a wound, or 37% of the attacks. That comes to 16 dead guardians at I5 without even thinking about the 6 power fist attacks. The Avatar ends up taking 12 wounds from fearless without the assault squad landing a single blow on the avatar, and should fail 6 saves.

The Bloody Handed God wrote:Um, I wasn't giving themall destructor. I'm not sure where that came from, I'd usually gibve maybe 3 out of 10 destructor.

Bad idea. If you kill enough, since you can't fleet (which makes them 101% easier to avoid...) they can't get into base to base if they remove the closest models...

I like sticking with a budget farseer, warlocks, and Yriel for the killing power.

If I'm taking a council it's usually a cheapy one anyhow because it's not too bad of a pointsink for how effective they are.

Farseer- both runes, doom fortune, bike, stones
6x warlocks- 3x destructor, 1 embolden, 1 enhance, 1 spear, 6 bikes

It's roughly 550-600 points if I remember correctly and if I use it in a decent manner I can get about 400-600 points back from it, plus channeling things away from it.

The farseer plays an awesome role as always though, scaring other psyckers and such. I made Mephiston suffer two perils of the warp in a turn and he didn't try using powers anymore after, but you have that with any RoWard Farseer.

Seems like a standard bike council, I prefer a large serpent council with Yriel and a budget seer for everything short of 'ard boyz points...

Haven't played Eldar in a while - was just curious if any of you'all have had positive experiences with the D-Cannon batteries? I'd like to go more with a mech list, but with 5 squads of dire avengers, I was thinking the D-Cannons could provide some cheap anti-tank/anti heavy infantry support to back them up.

Meriwether over on Warseer has used them with success. I don't like them very much, especially since they take a heavy slot away from my falcons. The short range and relative lack of durability (accompanied with relatively expensive points cost and short range) really hurts them.

But, the D-cannon does have some extreme infantry killing power.