Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Heh, so i am guessing the good ole bone giant will be king of flank charges.

Why? The bone giant isn't a very good monster as things go.

The thunderstomp helps immensely. Since your opponent doesn't get additional attacks when flanked, and since your giant gets an additional d6 hits that wound on 2's and can't be saved. It seriously helps.

What sucks is that your opponent can bring his front to bear. What has to be done, then, is a unit of skeletons needs to get into that open flank and run it off.

I'm most intrigued by Vanguard chariots. Suddenly, they are the best war-machine hunters we've got.

The Grog wrote:

I think Life regenerates dead troops better now.

True...but with life, you have to have the right spell, it uses PD (risking miscast), and then you only get one shot at it per turn. You can have one casting of the incantation for BotUL, one for every priest, and two for every high priest. The life spell does a better job one-for-one, if it gets off, but it's far less reliable over the course of the game than having multiple shots per turn at the incantation.

Ragnar4 wrote:The thunderstomp helps immensely. Since your opponent doesn't get additional attacks when flanked, and since your giant gets an additional d6 hits that wound on 2's and can't be saved. It seriously helps.

What sucks is that your opponent can bring his front to bear. What has to be done, then, is a unit of skeletons needs to get into that open flank and run it off.

I'm most intrigued by Vanguard chariots. Suddenly, they are the best war-machine hunters we've got.

What about scorpions and swarms? maybe a little less reliable but when they work right you can charge the turn they enter and either tie up or demolish them. I have always had good succses with this tactic, i have yet to play a game of 8th and am wondering if this is still viable?

i am definately going to try the Tomb scorpion attack!

Igice wrote:

Ragnar4 wrote:The thunderstomp helps immensely. Since your opponent doesn't get additional attacks when flanked, and since your giant gets an additional d6 hits that wound on 2's and can't be saved. It seriously helps.

What sucks is that your opponent can bring his front to bear. What has to be done, then, is a unit of skeletons needs to get into that open flank and run it off.

I'm most intrigued by Vanguard chariots. Suddenly, they are the best war-machine hunters we've got.

What about scorpions and swarms? maybe a little less reliable but when they work right you can charge the turn they enter and either tie up or demolish them. I have always had good succses with this tactic, i have yet to play a game of 8th and am wondering if this is still viable?

They still wreck face against War-machines, allthough the "outnumber+fear" autobreak is gone, so it may take an additional turn to do their thing. But what you would *rather* have is, turn one, in the war-machine, kill all but one, next turn kill the last guy, your turn charge the next machine, kill all but one guy, next turn kill the last one.. etc etc.

Getting scorpions into the flank is far more hazardous now. With more ablative attacks back against units in the front, you'll be losing by a much wider margin, AND if for whatever reason the scorpion charges a units flank and doesn't run it off, that unit can now roll a leadership test and face the scorp.. that = 1 dead scorp in one more turn.

I could be wrong, here as the group I play with rarely ever get any games bigger than 1k points, but the scorpion has always had the ill affect of being caught in the open. The new rules just make it a little bit more deadly. It would seem to me that in larger games of 3k+ 85 points for something that can get in behind and wreak havoc would be good, as its just not fessable for it to flank or to charge the rear of anything that isn't engaged with a major unit.
Also with the new codex coming out later this year has there been any rumors of skellys costing less? with fear more or less nerffed to the point of uselessness i just can not see them costing so damn much anymore.

Skellies pretty much have to cost less Igice. They are def overcosted versus the rules for fear.

The way GW does it, though, TK may end up getting shelved by all but the most stalwart of fluffy bunnies, or played by everyone. With the TK being the rumored first book after the storm of change, there's no way they'll get it right.

Part of me wonders, though, if they are simply going to increase stats to match current points, instead of making skellies cheaper to keep their stats the same.

Also: Killing blow versus war-machine ganks the entire machine. go go go Tomb Scorpion.

Just give me cheaper everything and Mummies. Lots of Mummies. All with Stewie Heads...

Yeah, Tomb Guard really don't cut it as mummies. Kings and princes being mummies doesn't do it for me either.

I want towel-wrapped raisin skinned dumb as a post, slow as all hell, impossible to kill MUMMIES!

Ya, never got a chance to play when they still had mummies i think it would be good to see them back!
Even if they would be flammable it would be good to have a good cheap high toughness unit

So does anyone know "when" we are going to get the rumoured new book?

Squig wrote:So does anyone know "when" we are going to get the rumoured new book?

Rumors vary. Some had them by October, others had them up until near 2012 (in a non-joking manner). I wouldn't put stock in what GW members say, though, as just two weeks ago my stores' Redshirts were insisting a new High Elf book would be out next month. Not the spearhead / models, army book.

Interesting reading all. I've been trying to find the time and funds to start a Tomb Kings army, so spent a lot of time pondering, though didn't have a lot to contribute. One thing I noticed, though:

Ragnar4 wrote:

Also: Killing blow versus war-machine ganks the entire machine. go go go Tomb Scorpion.

This is untrue- Heroic Killing Blow will destroy the machine, but not normal killing blow...

Ugh. Found the FAQ. Missed the "heroic" part.

I think that Tk magic is still pretty decent, especially in team games. I played a 2k per side team game this weekend and found that the other side tended to be more worried about nasty spells from my teammate than my incantations, and often times I would get to pop them off with no rolling required. Even without a teammate though, it is still very likely that at least some of the incantations will be cast because of the sheer number of them and the limit on the opposing players dispel dice.

One thing I came across in playing that I found interesting is the bound spell rules. In the last edition the bound spells would go off automatically at the power level specified when used, but now you have to use power dice for them. I found that this can help a bit because since TK do not need the power dice generated by the winds of magic for incantations, you can use 2 dice for BotUL and similar items with reasonable safety from miscasts, which might help soak up some of those dispel dice before getting to more useful things like CoS...

I agree with other posters about the points cost. If Beastman Gors with much better stats and the primal fury rule cost 6 points, then normal skellies should not be 8 points apiece.

The new fear rule is really only helpful for units with WS 3 or above, as this gets the enemy rolling 5s to hit.

As far a rumors go, at the NW US conference in the late spring, TK were supposedly coming out late summer/early fall...

As for tactics. I am finding that the scorpion armour has become, for me, a pivotal part of my army development. I am running the king with this armour in a squad of skellies 30+ with BoUL and they hold up anything for the hammer units (6 ushabti or so) to get into a flank and start killing stuff.

At a tourney a couple weeks ago one of the Australian ETC players used TKs.

King - chariot
Prince - chariot
LP
LP
2 scorps
3 units 3 chariots
3 units 20 (or 25) archers
2 units 5 lt cav
4 carrion
2 catapaults
There was a couple other units but can't remember what...

1: The chariots being fast cav get the free move at the start of the game. Now you can't charge in the move phase, but you can in the magic phase. He's have them roar up 1 flank then drop the prince and kings incantations on them and get a charge off on a small unit/warmachine, smash it and run through to the enemies back line. a LP would hover just in casting distance as well to add their incantation if need be.
King + 4 lt chariots = pretty decent hit first turn.

2: The big weakness he pointed out is that he didn't have a 'hammer' unit that could reliably smash through enemy units. Having to kill entire units to get any points meant that he was running out of 'puff' and couldn't get that decisive killing stroke in.

3: The archer units were gold, as were the skull catapaults.

very interesting tactic with the chariots, I am going to be in a doubles turny soon and that may be just the ticket we were looking for

Why can they charge in the magic phase? The rule in the BRB says they cannot declare a charge in the first turn if their side goes first. It doesn't specify movement phase vs. magic phase.

Note that I'm all for things helping TK at this point, but as I read it, I don't think this is permitted? It's entirely possible there's something in the FAQ that I've missed.

RZ

Red_Zeke wrote:Why can they charge in the magic phase? The rule in the BRB says they cannot declare a charge in the first turn if their side goes first. It doesn't specify movement phase vs. magic phase.

Note that I'm all for things helping TK at this point, but as I read it, I don't think this is permitted? It's entirely possible there's something in the FAQ that I've missed.

RZ

I think the the FAQ makes some sort of statement akin to "Your unit may make a regular move, if this would bring them into contact with the enemy then treat it as though a charge were declared". Basically, not-a-charge-but-works-like-one. I don't have TK book though, so it's speculation on my part. Sort of like why I think a Waaagh! into an enemy unit (or even an Animosity 6) would be possible for Spider Riders or Wolf Riders.

Take the Wizard Hat.

Zenkaron wrote:Take the Wizard Hat.

I keep playing with this idea.. and quite frankly. Can't stand the idea.

Put it on a King? He's now naked and can't really defend himself from the inevitable onslaught of combat.

Put it on a Liche Priest? He's clearly your Heiro, (unless you take a second), and 1 miscast. Just one, can turn your army inside out.

Sure you could take a 2nd high liche priest. But you lose Chariots as core in all but the most high points of games. Just not smart.

Keeping your high priest alive isnt that hard. I would take a HLP with Hat and a King with offensive items and a 4+ ward. Keep your Priest in a block and when someone gets close move him out. Keeping characters in units for high LD isnt hard. Most the other TK units are decent leadership. You can do alot of damage with TK incantations + lore of magic. Combine that with their shooting which can be even more brutal.

If your opponent decideds to kill your Heirophant, keeping him alive is much easier said than done, especially now that the Cloak of Dunes stinks.

--Luckily I have very rarely had any opponents who know that killing my Heiro is the key to beating me into oblivion.

The HLP with the hat is just another way for your HLP to die. For 100 points...

You're already spending 245 on him, to start with. So at 345 + 170 (king) you officially can't take this combo in 2000 points. Furthermore you'll be struggling to get it done with your magic. How many points do you intend to spend on princes and priests?

Minsc wrote:

Red_Zeke wrote:Why can they charge in the magic phase? The rule in the BRB says they cannot declare a charge in the first turn if their side goes first. It doesn't specify movement phase vs. magic phase.

Note that I'm all for things helping TK at this point, but as I read it, I don't think this is permitted? It's entirely possible there's something in the FAQ that I've missed.

RZ

I think the the FAQ makes some sort of statement akin to "Your unit may make a regular move, if this would bring them into contact with the enemy then treat it as though a charge were declared". Basically, not-a-charge-but-works-like-one. I don't have TK book though, so it's speculation on my part. Sort of like why I think a Waaagh! into an enemy unit (or even an Animosity 6) would be possible for Spider Riders or Wolf Riders.

THE SPELL READS THUS
Incantation of Urgency
target unit with in 12" and not in combat may immediately make a normal move. Unit may charge and all normal charging rules apply. A unit charged by means of this incantation reacts as normal and must take the appropriate Psychology tests. Units may only be affected by this incantation once per magic phase.

there ya have it a "normal" move with charging allowed
i like it
nice and sneaky

I'd say it could go either way, then. "Normal" Charging Rules apply has two interpretations. Either you follow the rules as they'd normally be in that instance, or normal as in you ignore any exceptional rules (such as perhaps a spell that holds you immobile that turn) and can outright declare a charge even if normally limited.

In this case, I'm now leaning more towards "how they'd normally be" as in "You cannot charge". Of course, if the enemy has priority, you can still charge if the opponent gets priority (which is probably the only way you'd set yourself up for a functional flank charge turn 1 anyways).

Yeah, this is my point. Normally, you can't charge unless you declare a charge. You can't declare a charge in the first turn if you go first. Thus... problem.

I have put a question in to GW to see if i can get an answer from the horses mouth so to speak