Killer Kans how do you arm them?

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**QuietOrkmi**

There are many list with infantry a) that can handle your boyz (tyranids) b) that can bog down your walkers (Dread in CC with 20 grots killing 3 per turn) c) that is so plentyfull that you wont be able to assault before its too late (IG infantry list).

Had not thought of that, interesting... How about the Deff Dreads have 3 CCW and a Skorcha. The Grotzookas were only disliked because I thought you could not assault after firing them. If you can assault after firing them, I could see taking one unit of grotzookas, to clear the above problem units away.

On the other hand with 18 lootaz and 3 Deffkoptaz you have enough options to take out plenty of AV 11 and 12 quickly.

3 Deff Koptas for the turn 1 assault means he starts 3 KP down 99% of the time, he may not get back on his investment 100% of the time. That is what I am worried about. What about a unit of 2 Deff Koptas and a unit of 1 Deff Koptas, this way he will only be down 2KP.

18 lootas (that is 2 units of 9) is very fragile, if 3 are lost, you are testing on LD 7. The larger the unit, the more likely they will draw attention. A unit of 14 is a little bit more durable, as they are less likely to flee off the board. 5 Lootas do not draw the same amount of Ire and will disperse to the same amount of shooting that will disperse 9 of them.

I understand that footsloggin orks need an ability to take out transports, that is why I am an advocate for the rokkits on the Kans.

The boyz cant be relied on to deal with infantry early on as the minute you use the Mek squads in melee you will most probably loose the Mek and the KFF protection so attacking with these two squads should be reserved for late game.

I could not agree more, what about making the third unit of boyz into 'ard boyz. This increases everyone save to 4+ (4+ for the 'ard boyz, 4+ for everyone behind them).

6 Grotzookas should be enough to take care of a lot of infatry problems, and my main target would be various heavy weapon teams which can cripple the wall 12-18 inches before it hits the enemy lines

If you are targeting heavy weapons teams, I would use lootas, Chimerias are the target of rokkits.

**somecallmeJack**

Is no one in favour of Kustom Mega Blastas? is the extra AP not worth the points?

**kaiservonhugal**

Not a fan - its tough for me to even justify the Rokkits. I like Grotzookas and Rokkits by necessity

**Boyofdestiny205**

Culler wrote:There really are only 2 weapons to choose from for Kans: Grotzookas (insanely good anti-infantry) or Rokkits (mediocre anti-tank.) Big shootas are mostly useless and kustom mega blastas are too pricey. I run more lootas than you and I still opt for 2 rokkit kan mobs and 1 grotzooka. The grotzookas are all around better and cheaper, but they mostly do anti-infantry which the Orks have in spades. My rokkit kans are generally a disappointment and rarely kill with their rokkits but they keep things good and shaken til the horde can catch up and saw vehicles apart with klaws and DCCWs.

If for some reason mech falls out of favor, I'd much rather run 2 grotzooka kan mobs and 1 rokkit.

I thought KMB are only 5 points more than the rokkits? I am at work and dont personally own a codex(looked through my friends a few times)

If that is true then 5 points for ap 2 seems like a steal. Hell even at 10 more points thats still a steal.

**kaiservonhugal**

They are only 5 points more. I think if youre using a Kan Wall technique - 9 Kans, you want to keep them in front of your boyz and covered by a Big Mek with a Force Field AND not stop to shot until the shots can target and open up transports whose contents can then be assualted. The contents of these transports should then be assaulted by other units of Kans or Boyz. I wouldnt be targeting things until this could happen - you lose the running option in the shooting phase in turns one and 2 and you need this extra movement. Its the most important thing really.

If the KMB was AP1 and added to the vehicle damage table then yeah - Id take it. As it is its over 50% the cost off base Kan model.

I like the Grotzooka and Rokkits for Kans.

**Vrakk**

somecallmeJack wrote:Is no one in favour of Kustom Mega Blastas? is the extra AP not worth the points?

Think of it this way. Why do you need AP 2? To deny TEQ armour saves and to deny FNP. You have power klaws and DCCW for both of these options. And for TEQ's you don't even need them - making a 2+ save is easy, making 40 of them against a boys squad is not.

One other nasty option I have started to run is a mob of 30 cyborks with the MadDoc behind a kan wall. All my kans in this build only have big shootas. There are several other slugga boy squads on foot behind the cyborks with one squad just clsoe enought to get the attached bigmek and kff close enough to the kans. Everybody runs flat out. This strategy forces your opponent to stop a kan wall or die. The cyborks have a 4+cover from the kans and a 4+ FNP. Admittedly, there is not a lot of thought that goes into the playing style -CHARGE! But for a casual game it can be quite fun. Watch BA players scratch their heads as they wonder where their pretty red boys went.

For a more tactical view, grot-zookas area must have on at least 1 squad of kans. As several have mentioned earlier - there are some CC fights you don't want anything to do with - Nidz come to mind here. Gaunts with poison will wreck orks - before the orks swing. The zookas can thin down the numbers quite well. They also work well against drop pod marines. They'll drop in and shoot what seems to be the better target - rokkit kans. This leaves them nice and clustered for you 6 str blast templates.

**Gitsplitta**

I must admit, I've run kans with rokkits & others with grotzookas, and the grotzookas always have a much larger impact on the outcome of the battle that the rokkits do. I'm not sayin' don't take rokkits... but in my experience they're less effective than the gratzookas.

**Clang**

KMBs are brilliant _if_ you know you'll be facing a terminator army, otherwise you may as well save points and stay with rokkits.

**wuestenfux**

I'd give them grotzookas, nothing else.
Two templates per model and so 18 templates in toto for 9 Kanz is very annoying for the opponent.

**sn0zcumb3r**

AP 2 is not really a Kan target.
In most list Kanz are there to:
a) Provide protection
b) Open vehicles - Rockets work just as well as KMB
c) Thin out infantry that can take a toll on the boyz - Grotzookas do this with style

Vs Terminators: if they are not TH-SS they are dead anyway as Str 4 Lightning claws don't hurt Kanz and if they are TH-SS then the KMB just changes the save to 3+ instead of 2+. Definetly not worth it. The 15 points that you saved not taking KMBs on a Kan squadron are one more loota, 3 bosspoles or other goodness

Orks deal with AP 2 as they do with most thing quantity not quality. As Vrakk said 40+ saves wield yield plenty of AP 2 failures

**QuietOrkmi**

Once more, what is the Kans job? Is it strictly Anti Infantry with the Grotzookas?

They are one of the few things that we can take that is S8 at a range... 18 templates is nice but how does that stop a mech army? S6 can only glance the chimera... 3 of them is fine to clear away problem infantry like the ones stated earlier...

The problem Orks need those Rokkits! Av 12-13 needs to have an answer... What do you do against Manticores? try and glance them?

**Alerian**

Kanwall w/o Dreads: Rokkits
Kanwall w/ Dreads: Grotzookas

Why?

If your dreads are running to get into CC, then your KFF Meks and Kans will want to run as well, in order to maintain the wall and cover saves. This means less shooting for the kans. So, cheaper weapons that put out a ton of hurt, right before they assault are best.

If you do not have any dreads, then running with the Kans will not be as mandatory, and you can spend more rounds simply moving 6" and firing 9 rokkits per turn.

Simply put, the choice of the use of Deffdreads in your list will greatly determine the best use of your Kans.

**QuietOrkmi**

Well put Alerian, I have never thought of it like that...

**DaR**

I prefer Grotzookas on mine. S6 is adequate for helping to crack open light transports, if there's no convenient large masses of infantry to shoot at.

As for the argument that Orks don't need anti-infantry, my thought is that if you soften up squads with barrages of S6 templates, you can assault with comparatively fewer losses. A mob of 12 in a trukk is going to take enough casualties assaulting any decent unit of 10 MEqs that even if they ultimately win, they're going to be mostly useless afterwards. The same mob, assaulting a unit reduced to 5 or 6 by grotzooka fire, can now reasonably expect to be functional afterwards.

I put Rokkits on Buggies. 3x3 Buggies with TL-Rokkits have around the same number of rokkit hits, and cost less than the Kanz would, as well as being more mobile in order to get to arcs suitable for side armor shots.

In fact, together that's a pretty fearsome combo. 18 AV10/11 hulls for just a hair over 700 points. The buggies can crack open transports and harass MCs and walkers, while the Kanz pour fire onto the infantry that falls out and then assault them if there's anything left.

**QuietOrkmi**

I love buggies as they block movement, fast, and provide "accurate" S8 Ap3 shots at a fair price...