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Raptors.
They look much better.

Huh, I forgot they were relentless. That makes them almost worth 33points

Still,maybe 30 points would be better

For the price of a 5 man raptor squad with 2 meltas I'd rather take a termicide unit instead with 3 combi meltas. Better chance of survival after shooting the load and less chance to scatter off target or mishap thanks to icons. Now if I take both then that is a whole other story.

Nurglitch wrote:Something people tend to forget about Chaos Space Marine Bikers is that they have Twin-Linked Bolters, Relentless, a Bolt Pistol, and Close Combat Weapon. Given their most effective range, this really does make them more valuable at engaging and defeating the enemy than Space Marine Bikers.

They cost 8 more points than a regular codex marine biker, and here are the differences.

CSM have a CCW and bolt pistol for +1A on the grunts, but not a powerfist.

+1 leadership versus ATSKNF and combat tactics which is generally seen as a disadvantage which is why TAC marines cost 1 more point than vanilla CSM.

CSM can buy an icon that will likely either be
IOCG for 10 points, and all this really does is attempt to compensate for the loss of ATSKNF
Nurgle which gives T6 but does not give FNP. How good is T6 on chaos bikes? Well if it's a squad of 5 bikes that's 8 more points per model for being chaos for 40 points and 50 points for the banner so the total cost of being nurgle chaos bikers comes to 90 more points for 5 models, that's an extra 18 points per model, and the exact same cost as 7 codex marine bikes + an attack bike.

Codex marines can have attack bikes.

Codex marines can have bikes as scoring units.

So in short

CSM bikes with IOCG give up the ability to include attack bikes and the ability to be a scoring unit in exchange for 1 extra attack die on the grunt for 10 points a model in a 5 man squad.

CSM bikes with Icon of Nurgle give up the ability to include attack bikes, the ability to be a scoring unit, and have potential leadership issues for 1 extra attack and T5 going up to T6 for an extra 18 points per model.

Note the base cost of a full 8 man +attack bike squad that is a scoring unit that can combat squad in a codex marine list is 25 points more than 5 Nurgle bikers.

Chaos bikes have huge issues. I can understand overpaying for a unit if it fills a roll that an army can not fill in any other way, but since an entire mechanized chaos army moves 12" a turn I don't see the need to overpay for a fast unit.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Agree with schadenfreude.

Samus. Yes lash princes plague marines obliterators terminators. These are good chaos units. I don't play that book anymore though bc the army is limited. Blue marines and red marines are better.

As long as I'm winning consistently I'm going to assume I'm doing something right. It's not a game of preferences like do you prefer vanilla or chocolate. There are right and wrong answers.

Bloody asked for opinions and he got some. If y'all want to start a raptors fan club god bless... but try not to blow a screw when someone disagrees k?

AF

Dude, you need to chillax a bit. Not everyone plays to win all the time, sometimes people play for fun and to try and win. Playing a fluffy game is just fun sometimes, but would i run a list of all guardian jetbikes, vypers, and falcons (Eldar is my first army), no I wouldn't but if I was playing a fluff game and wanted to be saim-hann, sure why not. It's people that have your mindset of win win win at all costs that can ruin the fun for people that just want to play.

The Bloody Handed God wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Agree with schadenfreude.

Samus. Yes lash princes plague marines obliterators terminators. These are good chaos units. I don't play that book anymore though bc the army is limited. Blue marines and red marines are better.

As long as I'm winning consistently I'm going to assume I'm doing something right. It's not a game of preferences like do you prefer vanilla or chocolate. There are right and wrong answers.

Bloody asked for opinions and he got some. If y'all want to start a raptors fan club god bless... but try not to blow a screw when someone disagrees k?

AF

Dude, you need to chillax a bit. Not everyone plays to win all the time, sometimes people play for fun and to try and win. Playing a fluffy game is just fun sometimes, but would i run a list of all guardian jetbikes, vypers, and falcons (Eldar is my first army), no I wouldn't but if I was playing a fluff game and wanted to be saim-hann, sure why not. It's people that have your mindset of win win win at all costs that can ruin the fun for people that just want to play.

When RT were 1750 I only ran a single squad of PM and a single defiler for my HS. At 2k I run 2 squads of PM ad 2 HS consisting of a single defiler and a ML havoc squad. Both my 1750 RT and 2k RT have a squad of Noise Marines, Thousand Sons, and Vanilla Marines in the list. In non tournament games I refuse to run 2 lashes and limit my self to 1 or less lashes unless it's a tournament game. I don't even own an Obliterator model. People sometimes call my chaos list a soft list. That's my background, and my opinion on chaos bikers is they are terribly overpriced models that perform a specialty job that the army doesn't need.

When I want to run fluff I run purely Nurgle & Slaneesh units with tons of summoned lesser deamons, but I still avoid fast attack units like the plague.

Bloody...
well...you asked if chaos fast attacks were good or not. they are not. if you want to run them because their fun...cool.
Considering that Im being laughed at called names etc I think im being pretty polite.
AF

Re: playing for fun.
Whatever floats the boat, but it is a tactics thread, so you can't expect to NOT get the competitive point of view on things...

As for the other namecallinglaughat, it is the internet...it comes with admission.

Sanctjud wrote:Re: playing for fun.
Whatever floats the boat, but it is a tactics thread, so you can't expect to NOT get the competitive point of view on things...

As for the other namecallinglaughat, it is the internet...it comes with admission.

A wise man once said these words...