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FlingitNow wrote:4d6 discard the highest is truest to both rules. 2d6 strongly favours the Eldar player but follows the FAQ which granted wasn't talkng about this rule but another of the same name...

3d6 ignore the highest but use all 3 for determining shadows effectively entirely ignores the SitW rule as the Shadows rule does not have a significant effect on your chance of perils (unlike Warding for instance), it is just supposed to make casting harder which is the part you're ignoring...

So ignoring the game breaking possibility the fairest result is 4d6 discard the highest, the easiest is just take it on 2d6. I'd advise you agree with your opponent before hand. Or just agree that the Farseer stays in the Wave Serpent and laughs...

Well, then you are in a position of breaking the game on the "You must use the lowest two rolls." portion of the Eldar item. Also, rolling 4D6 and discarding highest has two further effects; it ignores that both powers calls for exactly 3D6, and it also trivializes the quite expensive Rune of Witnessing. Rolling 3D6 and rolling 4D6 discarding highest is not statistically a very large difference and throughly favours the Tyranid effect almost to the point where you might as well ignore the Rune.

The Eldar FAQ does state what happens when two rules of the correct names interact.
Stinks for Tyranids, but it is the closest to a ruling available, as I read things.

Hmmm, I'm not sure about SitW breaking when you have the runes of witnessing being used due to the way it is written. SitW says any psyker within 12" must take the test on 3 dice and suffers a PotW on the roll of any double 1 or double 6.

Runes of witnessing say roll 3d6 and discard the highest die.

It appears that you could satisfy both conditions by rolling 3d6, if there are any double 1's or 6's you take PotW. Then you discard the highest for purposes of passing the test. Both rules are met as written.

I am not saying this is the way they have to be and I am right, just looking at how they are written, why would the game break here?

On the other issue, the FAQ does refer to the ability Shadows in the Warp and does not specify version of codex or edition of game. We refer to codices as being for a particular edition of the game as players for clarification; the only thing with specific editions is the BgB itself. We are told that the most recent codex is the currently used codex without reference to edition of the game.

Orion_44 wrote:Hmmm, I'm not sure about SitW breaking when you have the runes of witnessing being used due to the way it is written. SitW says any psyker within 12" must take the test on 3 dice and suffers a PotW on the roll of any double 1 or double 6.

Runes of witnessing say roll 3d6 and discard the highest die.

It appears that you could satisfy both conditions by rolling 3d6, if there are any double 1's or 6's you take PotW. Then you discard the highest for purposes of passing the test. Both rules are met as written.

I am not saying this is the way they have to be and I am right, just looking at how they are written, why would the game break here?

Because that is rolling 3d6 and but taking the test on 2d6.

Orion_44 wrote:On the other issue, the FAQ does refer to the ability Shadows in the Warp and does not specify version of codex or edition of game. We refer to codices as being for a particular edition of the game as players for clarification; the only thing with specific editions is the BgB itself. We are told that the most recent codex is the currently used codex without reference to edition of the game.

Agreed.

Er yeah, saw that just after I posted....

We need an emoticon to better express when we are just dumb. Face palm is more at other people, now what can convey temporary mental disability?

Well, then you are in a position of breaking the game on the "You must use the lowest two rolls." portion of the Eldar item. Also, rolling 4D6 and discarding highest has two further effects; it ignores that both powers calls for exactly 3D6, and it also trivializes the quite expensive Rune of Witnessing. Rolling 3D6 and rolling 4D6 discarding highest is not statistically a very large difference and throughly favours the Tyranid effect almost to the point where you might as well ignore the Rune.

Firstly whatever you do breaks the game or the rules. The 4d6 method applies the raw mechanics of both rules. Technically via RaW you should in this circumstance roll a dice on a 4+ the runes do nothing on a 3- SitW does nothing...

Secondly rolling 4d6 and discarding the highest does not ignore the run, statiscally it is the exact middle point of the 2 effects (you have about 50% chance of passing pure SityW and 98% pure RoW and about 75% on the 4d6 Method).

How is that ignoring the runes? It is statiscally having a huge impact still.

I think the Perils v. casting difficulty is a "fluff" argument.

Actually it is a statiscal argument not a fluff argfument. Shadow in the Warp has very little impact on your chances of getting a perils attack (not that Eldar are generally that worried about perils anyway). Unlike say Runes of Warding which gives about a 40% chance of perils. What the rule does is significantly reduce your chances of casting. That is what the rule does and has nothing to do with fluff.

FlingitNow wrote:4d6 discard the highest is truest to both rules. 2d6 strongly favours the Eldar player but follows the FAQ which granted wasn't talkng about this rule but another of the same name...

3d6 ignore the highest but use all 3 for determining shadows effectively entirely ignores the SitW rule as the Shadows rule does not have a significant effect on your chance of perils (unlike Warding for instance), it is just supposed to make casting harder which is the part you're ignoring...

So ignoring the game breaking possibility the fairest result is 4d6 discard the highest, the easiest is just take it on 2d6. I'd advise you agree with your opponent before hand. Or just agree that the Farseer stays in the Wave Serpent and laughs...

I was thinking about a working 4d6 situation and can two two thoughts. Either have a 'dedicated' SitW die that can't be discarded and allow them to discard any other. Or the simple 4d6 discard highest. I just haven't had time/energy to do the numbers to detarmin which give the closest perils+failure match.