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solkan wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Depends. I've seen people make defiler legs poseable, which can be easily abused to catch more units in CC.

If you want to,say, make a dreadnought poseable, I wouldn't have any problems with.

That's really strange. I can see how the legs could be adjusted to lift or lower the profile for shooting, but I don't see a way for the leg positioning to really change how many units can get into close combat. A single model can't initiate a multiple assault, and even if you scrunch all of the legs together, about the same amount of models can get into either base contact or within 2" of base contact.

So how were they trying to adjust the legs to get an advantage in close combat?

One example a guy I don't play with any-more provided. Squeezing the legs together to fit through a gap in terrain {`{`{*}`}`} turned into {{{*}}}

Guardsman can quite happily sit underneath a Valks wing, as can an enemy model - as long as they stay 1" away.

The only prohibition is only the Valkyrie ending ITS move over another model, not on anything else.

ChrisCP wrote:

solkan wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Depends. I've seen people make defiler legs poseable, which can be easily abused to catch more units in CC.

If you want to,say, make a dreadnought poseable, I wouldn't have any problems with.

That's really strange. I can see how the legs could be adjusted to lift or lower the profile for shooting, but I don't see a way for the leg positioning to really change how many units can get into close combat. A single model can't initiate a multiple assault, and even if you scrunch all of the legs together, about the same amount of models can get into either base contact or within 2" of base contact.

So how were they trying to adjust the legs to get an advantage in close combat?

One example a guy I don't play with any-more provided. Squeezing the legs together to fit through a gap in terrain {`{`{*}`}`} turned into {{{*}}}

Turning sideways must have been too hard for him.

Well my little diagram didn't experess the true amount of 'tippy-toedness' that was grenerated, noo way through

ChrisCP wrote:Well my little diagram didn't experess the true amount of 'tippy-toedness' that was grenerated, noo way through

pop! and an image of a defiler in leotards enters my head.

Gwar! wrote:

Gunner11011 wrote:The rules absolutly do not allow models to be changed? where can i see this prohibition? Your strong statment makes me think that you have read this somewhere? Where?
Thanks.

Where do they say they can be changed?

You have to show you can. We do not have to show you cannot.

To un-jack the thread, P11 of the BRB says you can move your models. That's good enough for me. If you are altering models to make them pose-able, that is modelling for advantage. If the models come like that, go for it. Just don't be a dick about it and also make sure you are always measuring from the same place.

Yes, it says you can move them.

Does it say you can change their shape? Open doors? Make them crouch?

No.

The only place where you are given permission to move a part of a model is in the vehicle weapons rules.

Gonna have to disagree with you there, Scott.

Want to turn a dreadnought's arm? Move it. Want to change where a defiler's leg rests? Move it!

Obviously this isn't the intent of the rule but

Open a door means moving a door
He has permission to move his models.

Like I said, this interpretation falls flat when you take into account you need to measure movement (no base on a defiler). Just thought I'd shake things up a bit.

Rotating turrets, elevating barrels, moving sponsons....


Doesn't say anywhere that I have to glue THOSE in a static position does it?

Soup and a roll wrote:Gonna have to disagree with you there, Scott.

Want to turn a dreadnought's arm? Move it. Want to change where a defiler's leg rests? Move it!

Open a door means moving a door

Moving a model is not the same as moving a part of it to change it's shape.

Soup and a roll wrote:
Obviously this isn't the intent of the rule

I'll agree with you there.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Soup and a roll wrote:Gonna have to disagree with you there, Scott.

Want to turn a dreadnought's arm? Move it. Want to change where a defiler's leg rests? Move it!

Open a door means moving a door

Moving a model is not the same as moving a part of it to change it's shape.

Just like moving a unit is not the same as moving just some of a unit?

I'll Bite: if altering the configuration of the model is "moving it" then a land raider who opens it's doors must be moving at combat speed right? It moved less than 6", but it did move.

Sure Walkers and Fast vehicles won't care but all them Regular vehicles will be SOL.

At least the Drop pod will stay the same as never allowing a configuration change, it is immobile.

The movement rules are discussing moving a model along the plane of the table, not reconfiguring them into different models.

Kommissar Kel wrote:I'll Bite: if altering the configuration of the model is "moving it" then a land raider who opens it's doors must be moving at combat speed right? It moved less than 6", but it did move.

There are no rules that actually ask you to open the doors of a transport vehicle.

While some people do it when disembarking their models, it's not required or asked for, by the rules.

I know i was being facetious; Soup and Roll was saying that opening a door equates to moving in the movement phase, the same with posing a defiler's legs differently, or any other form of altering the model. I did go on to state that the movement rules are not rules governing the changing of the model, but moving the whole model along a linear plane(the table)

Actually, Soup and a roll was saying that if OP had gone to the trouble of having a posable model, I wouldn't have a problem with him utilising it. Was trying to find some way of backing it up with the rules (P11), but it obviously will crumble under YMDC scrutiny.

Just to goad you a bit further Kommissar Kel, seeing as you measure distance moved from origin of a vehicle (to prevent doughnutting) opening the door wouldn't count as movement at all. People tend to pick a single point (normally the front of the hull) and always measure from there.

Soup and a roll wrote:Just to goad you a bit further Kommissar Kel, seeing as you measure distance moved from origin of a vehicle (to prevent doughnutting) opening the door wouldn't count as movement at all. People tend to pick a single point (normally the front of the hull) and always measure from there.

You had suggested that moving as defined in the movement rules would allow posing of model parts. In that case then yes, opening the hatch would count as moving.

I think you can choose which part of the model to measure from, allowing things like movement free pivoting, as long as you don't change halfway through.

Really though, if you are going to be permissive enough to allow this sort of tomfoolery I don't think you really care about measuring opening doors.