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If your model can bend over, if it is modeled to "lean" or duck can it do so during the movement phase.

The idea is, if you have a walker that can be moved to stand in different ways, can its posture be changed during the movement phase to reflect that?

I modeled 3 walkers to be pose-able. Can their pose, aka the way they are standing be changed during a game.
As modeled I can have them stand up straight and look over walls or hunch down and hide behind tall walls. Is this legal? Hunching they are the height of a Space marine Dread, standing tall they are normal Eldar walker height.
My belief is that with Warhammer being a wysiwyg game at its genisis, this work would be rewarded with the rules allowing this.
Anyone Know?

Sounds like modeling for advantage taken to the extreme...if you were to play with me id ask you to choose a pose and stick with that one...

As cool as your idea sounds...there are alot of people who would have major problems with it i think...

The rules absolutely do not allow models to be changed during a game. The only provision for moving part of a model is aiming vehicle weapons when shooting.

ETA Zero-G was a fun little beer and pretzel game that used posable action figures in this way - you may want to check it out!

The rules absolutly do not allow models to be changed? where can i see this prohibition? Your strong statment makes me think that you have read this somewhere? Where?
Thanks.

Gunner11011 wrote:The rules absolutly do not allow models to be changed? where can i see this prohibition? Your strong statment makes me think that you have read this somewhere? Where?
Thanks.

Where do they say they can be changed?

You have to show you can. We do not have to show you cannot.

Gunner11011 wrote:The rules absolutly do not allow models to be changed? where can i see this prohibition? Your strong statment makes me think that you have read this somewhere? Where?
Thanks.

Models are generally glued together (as instructed in the manual that comes with the various GW kits) and the rules don't say that you are allowed to make them 'pose-able'.

Gunner11011 wrote:The rules absolutly do not allow models to be changed? where can i see this prohibition? Your strong statment makes me think that you have read this somewhere? Where?
Thanks.

The rules have to allow you to be able to change your models during a game. So if it isn't in the rulebook, then you can't do it. The rule set is permissive.

Many models are posable.

Drop pods,
Titans.

When you open a drop pod it has a very diffent profile then closed and they have had differnt armor values open and closed. See Imperial Armor to see that. *12 closed 10 open*

Many vehicles when they open doors to unload passengers change thier profiles. Look at forgeworlds pose-able model they can, when a Tau manta upens up it is definatly Pose-able with a huge change in profile.
Many titans pivot at the waist changing thier profile dramaticly these are posable models...


I can see that these are pos-able made by games workshop so i guess these are pos-able and because games workshop didn't put pivoting joints in other modles those can not be... Just was hoping for a better answer then "No becuase there is no rule saying, yes"

Gunner11011 wrote:Many models are posable.

Drop pods,
Titans.

When you open a drop pod it has a very diffent profile then closed and they have had differnt armor values open and closed. See Imperial Armor to see that. *12 closed 10 open*

Many vehicles when they open doors to unload passengers change thier profiles. Look at forgeworlds pose-able model they can, when a Tau manta upens up it is definatly Pose-able with a huge change in profile.
Many titans pivot at the waist changing thier profile dramaticly these are posable models...

Forge World does not write the rule set for 40k nor are their vehicles (as written in the IA books) generally a part of any official codex. These models and their rules may be used with the permission of your opponent. Also a space marine drop pod from the current space marine codex is armour 12 open topped therefore it always counts as having the doors open regardless of how it is modeled.

ok. Thanks.

Ship sunk.

Just wanted to add to the Drop pod issue; Whether the doors are open or Closed has no bearing on gameplay either. Well sorta, It has been stated... somewhere, that the Doors down are ignored for model mobility(both friendly and enemy models can walk over them). And the Doors up should be looked "through" as if they were not even there.

Also the Rules do permit some Posability, under the Vehicles Section in Vehicle Weapons and Line of Sight(page 58+59 brb)

Gunner11011 wrote:If your model can bend over, if it is modeled to "lean" or duck can it do so during the movement phase.

The idea is, if you have a walker that can be moved to stand in different ways, can its posture be changed during the movement phase to reflect that?

I modeled 3 walkers to be pose-able. Can their pose, aka the way they are standing be changed during a game.
As modeled I can have them stand up straight and look over walls or hunch down and hide behind tall walls. Is this legal? Hunching they are the height of a Space marine Dread, standing tall they are normal Eldar walker height.
My belief is that with Warhammer being a wysiwyg game at its genisis, this work would be rewarded with the rules allowing this.
Anyone Know?

Although posing your models would look extremely cool during battles, it is seen as modelling for advantage. And despite there being nothing in the rules about it there is no precident in the rulebook of any model changing form during a game, it would be frowned upon by most players as trying to take an unfair advantage.

HellsGuardian316 wrote: there is no precident other than drop pods in the rulebook of any model changing form during a game,

There is no precedent for Drop Pods doing it either. Once they're on the table, there is no rule allowing you to change their configuration. So you put them on the table with the doors up, or the doors down... and that's how they will stay.

insaniak wrote:

HellsGuardian316 wrote: there is no precident other than drop pods in the rulebook of any model changing form during a game,

There is no precedent for Drop Pods doing it either. Once they're on the table, there is no rule allowing you to change their configuration. So you put them on the table with the doors up, or the doors down... and that's how they will stay.

Quite right, seems what I thought was in the rules section was in fact fluff nothing more and therefore not relevant, have amended my post accordingly

The issue here would be changing the position so that you get all the benefit of being able to shoot then hide. I could see if you had it poseable where it stands up to shoot and stays that way until next turn leaving it out in the open now for me to return fire after what ever outcome it's shooting was in your turn.

From my stand point I see no difference between this and "hiding" the model behind a building so that it can not be shot at. So long as all the movement is done in the moving phase; but you will have to draw line of sight just as you would if you modeled it in THAT position not that it stood up and took the shot.



However I'd prolly suggest doing this to a model for friendly games that your opponent and yourself hammer out some house rules for the idea and build a second static model for tournament/store games . No reason you can't have some modelling fun that's for sure, just understand not everyone will be so lax to want to try/play against it.

As a house rule, you should probably require any re-posing to be completed in the movement phase and then left unchanged until your next movement phase. That way it affects your shooting LOS just as well as the LOS to hit you.

i remember a buddy of mine (very WAAC guy) had some old Eldar wraithlords that he modeled so they were kneeling then he'd try to take cover from infantry and then on his shooting phase he'd say 'oh its really this tall'. The stuff he tries to pull is comical sometimes like his latest adventure in making his Demon Princes out of deciever models with none of the robe stuff so it's only slightly taller than a termie. He hides them behind rhinos :(

As for your question if you want to model some dramatic pose for coolness and not because you want to squeeze the cover rules than its cool. If you are doing it just for gaming advantage then you are modeling for advantage and people will heap scorn on you (probably to your face and most definitely behind your back).

Oh and no you can't switch your models out in the middle of the game with certain exceptions. Namely the tank guy from Space Marines. He has 2 models 1 for when he's in a tank and the other if his tank gets blown up. Come to think of it that's the only example I can come up with. Can anyone else come up with others?

Tau crisis suit with ejection system.

Nevermind.

Not to thread jack, but I've got a question on a similar note.

In the case of Rhinos and Land Raiders that have ramps, is it acceptable to have the ramp swing open and place models on the ramps to utilize space? My gaming group personally has no problem with it, but I'm wondering what the general consensus is.

There's no particular need to open the ramps in the first place. The rules don't require it.

Schnitzel wrote:Not to thread jack, but I've got a question on a similar note.

In the case of Rhinos and Land Raiders that have ramps, is it acceptable to have the ramp swing open and place models on the ramps to utilize space? My gaming group personally has no problem with it, but I'm wondering what the general consensus is.

To "utilize space"? Are you gaining extra space or a larger vehicle footprint for the purpose of entering/exiting? Then that's modeling to your advantage.

Leez wrote:

Schnitzel wrote:Not to thread jack, but I've got a question on a similar note.

In the case of Rhinos and Land Raiders that have ramps, is it acceptable to have the ramp swing open and place models on the ramps to utilize space? My gaming group personally has no problem with it, but I'm wondering what the general consensus is.

To "utilize space"? Are you gaining extra space or a larger vehicle footprint for the purpose of entering/exiting? Then that's modeling to your advantage.

Agree with this. if you open the hatch and get within 2" of the ramp and try to embark from there that's a bit shady. However, it's what maybe 1/2" i don't know if I'd call you on it.

Dracheous wrote:The issue here would be changing the position so that you get all the benefit of being able to shoot then hide. I could see if you had it poseable where it stands up to shoot and stays that way until next turn leaving it out in the open now for me to return fire after what ever outcome it's shooting was in your turn.

From my stand point I see no difference between this and "hiding" the model behind a building so that it can not be shot at. So long as all the movement is done in the moving phase; but you will have to draw line of sight just as you would if you modeled it in THAT position not that it stood up and took the shot.



However I'd prolly suggest doing this to a model for friendly games that your opponent and yourself hammer out some house rules for the idea and build a second static model for tournament/store games . No reason you can't have some modelling fun that's for sure, just understand not everyone will be so lax to want to try/play against it.

Yea, The way we played it was, in the movement phase it could move and be posed but then stay in that pose until its next movement phase. But it seems that because there are no rules that spell this out, because it seems that movement phase doesn't include any movment of the model itself only moving the model around on the board, that this isn't to be so.. It also does hit the ever sensitive "modeling to advantage nerve" so out comes the glue.

Thanks again.

Synnister wrote:i remember a buddy of mine (very WAAC guy) had some old Eldar wraithlords that he modeled so they were kneeling then he'd try to take cover from infantry and then on his shooting phase he'd say 'oh its really this tall'. The stuff he tries to pull is comical sometimes like his latest adventure in making his Demon Princes out of deciever models with none of the robe stuff so it's only slightly taller than a termie. He hides them behind rhinos :(

LOL! Classic.

As for the question... if you're wanting to pose them so that you can cheat, then don't do it cause you'll get slapped. Also, fix your title, it's scary.

Synnister wrote:

Leez wrote:

Schnitzel wrote:Not to thread jack, but I've got a question on a similar note.

In the case of Rhinos and Land Raiders that have ramps, is it acceptable to have the ramp swing open and place models on the ramps to utilize space? My gaming group personally has no problem with it, but I'm wondering what the general consensus is.

To "utilize space"? Are you gaining extra space or a larger vehicle footprint for the purpose of entering/exiting? Then that's modeling to your advantage.

Agree with this. if you open the hatch and get within 2" of the ramp and try to embark from there that's a bit shady. However, it's what maybe 1/2" i don't know if I'd call you on it.

I'm sorry, I must not have been very clear. I mean opening the hatch on a Land Raider and deploying a unit or two on the ramp itself. Measuring 2 inches from where the hatch lands is a dick move.

Depends. I've seen people make defiler legs poseable, which can be easily abused to catch more units in CC.

If you want to,say, make a dreadnought poseable, I wouldn't have any problems with.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Depends. I've seen people make defiler legs poseable, which can be easily abused to catch more units in CC.

If you want to,say, make a dreadnought poseable, I wouldn't have any problems with.

That's really strange. I can see how the legs could be adjusted to lift or lower the profile for shooting, but I don't see a way for the leg positioning to really change how many units can get into close combat. A single model can't initiate a multiple assault, and even if you scrunch all of the legs together, about the same amount of models can get into either base contact or within 2" of base contact.

So how were they trying to adjust the legs to get an advantage in close combat?

Schnitzel wrote:

Synnister wrote:

Leez wrote:

Schnitzel wrote:Not to thread jack, but I've got a question on a similar note.

In the case of Rhinos and Land Raiders that have ramps, is it acceptable to have the ramp swing open and place models on the ramps to utilize space? My gaming group personally has no problem with it, but I'm wondering what the general consensus is.

To "utilize space"? Are you gaining extra space or a larger vehicle footprint for the purpose of entering/exiting? Then that's modeling to your advantage.

Agree with this. if you open the hatch and get within 2" of the ramp and try to embark from there that's a bit shady. However, it's what maybe 1/2" i don't know if I'd call you on it.

I'm sorry, I must not have been very clear. I mean opening the hatch on a Land Raider and deploying a unit or two on the ramp itself. Measuring 2 inches from where the hatch lands is a dick move.

If you're still measuring from the hull then it's just a cool LR job and not modelling to adavantage. Same issue with drop pod doors modelled so as to be movable.

Schnitzel wrote:
I'm sorry, I must not have been very clear. I mean opening the hatch on a Land Raider and deploying a unit or two on the ramp itself. Measuring 2 inches from where the hatch lands is a dick move.

The only problem there is like what people bring up about the valk all the time and thats no two models can occupy the same space at the end or beginning of a turn. While I wouldn't see them standing on the ramp as them "occupying" the same place, but then I also would not see a guardsman under the wing of a flying valk as that either.