Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

According the USPS- making a claim of non-receipt of a package when you aren't sure that it was actually sent is, in fact, mail fraud.

ollieholmes wrote: From a buisness view its different. I will always try my hardest to get products to the customer in time and i will always publicise any delays i know about on my website.

See, that's what I'm saying, Ollie. In my opinion, you're a small operation and it might take 4-6 weeks for me to get my product, and it says so on the site before I place an order - I'm good. I got no problems with slow service if it's upfront. Alternately, there is an unexpected delay, you send out an email or post a message apologizing for whatever the delay was with a new ETA - also OK, totally no problem. Stuff happens and I think everyone understands that.

But when you're in the same country as me, I put in an order and a month goes by without a product or email, we're not doing business again. Small company, large company, no exceptions. You don't need fast shipping if you have good communication, and the latter is cheap or free.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Ouze wrote:It's not like it's not possible for small companies to provide excellent customer service. Romeo can do it. Neal can do it. Fenris Games can do it.

There is that, yes. On the other hand, at least Armorcast isn't engaging their competitors in frivolous lawsuits...

I think you managed to slip this little barb in un-noticed. Good work!

Ouze wrote:

ollieholmes wrote: From a buisness view its different. I will always try my hardest to get products to the customer in time and i will always publicise any delays i know about on my website.

See, that's what I'm saying, Ollie. In my opinion, you're a small operation and it might take 4-6 weeks for me to get my product, and it says so on the site before I place an order - I'm good. I got no problems with slow service if it's upfront. Alternately, there is an unexpected delay, you send out an email or post a message apologizing for whatever the delay was with a new ETA - also OK, totally no problem. Stuff happens and I think everyone understands that.

But when you're in the same country as me, I put in an order and a month goes by without a product or email, we're not doing business again. Small company, large company, no exceptions. You don't need fast shipping if you have good communication, and the latter is cheap or free.

Im putting alot of my effort into doing things better than other companies, i spent alot of time looking at other similler products and finding their problems and deciding how i could do better. Same with shipping and things. I wil always post the same working day as long as i recieve the order before 4pm U.K time. I wont name names but some companies in the industry have shipping times that are a joke, i will do better than that. I will not have my customers waiting weeks for an order to come through.

ChrisCP wrote:

Polonius wrote:

ChrisCP wrote:Really, if it's going to take a week to recive a 'processing' letter and attending a fair for the "25th-29th June. is going to mean that four weeks later he hasn't recived his order - you are going to try and defend the company because it's 'garage run by two people'?
Where's a little notice on the site that there may be delays or when not a notice in the processing email that postage my be slow?
When on earth does a 6 day fair mean one waits another two weeks for nothing to have appeared?

What's going to happen is I'm going to tell them my stuff has been lost in the post and I'd like a refund. I'm not going to be buying from them again otherwise and they'll stay a 'garage run by two people' and not a very sucessful one.

While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, and I have in fact admitted freely that while Armorcast are very professional at casting, they're business acumen is weak, I must point out that announcing that you intend to commit mail fraud is not exactly wise. Nor does help your case that you're an injured party.

Committing mail fraud? My item has not appeared after an extended period of time and I said I would tell them - Please explain how this is committing fraud? "My item hasn’t arrived." true/false?, it could actually be that they have posted the item in due time and it is lost, am I still committing fraud then? Seriously, think before you make accusations - irrational defence of a company sheesh - I suppose when phone companies and the like refuse to honor their warranties this is okay because apparently a huge number of people try to abuse them? - and given my scenario was hypothetical enjoy your hypothetical fraud case

I thought you meant you were going to claim non-receipt even if you got it. My apologies.

What again was the topic?

From a small business point-of-view..

Anyone who has dealt with me or Chapterhouse knows that I pretty much respond to any emails or phone calls in 24 hours (likely within the hour unless I happen to be asleep).

Good communication is cheap and free. Now people may not like my response, reworking molds, out of stock products etc, but they can never say I dont communicate.

I do agree you need to be upfront about delays as well. We have a few items (mostly resins) that are constantly short-stocked due to demand and production rates. BUT, those items also have been red lettering on their product pages notifying people of the delay.
This may cause sales drops, but it wouldn't be fair to do otherwise.

I hate not having everything in stock as well, my goal is to have 0 outstanding invoices, but that wont happen anytime soon :(.

Saying all of that, I do not think it is unreasonable to have good email communications, explain delivery expectations on your site, even if you are doing this part-time (which I have been for the last 1.75 years).

FWIW,
Nick
Chapterhousestudios.com

I have ordered from Armocast and I have bought from them in person at Adepticon. Ordering online is a bit slower than I am use too but once I get the stuff it is always packed and shipped well. If I need anything from them in a hurry I will order it from a 3rd party off of ebay. However, when I met them in pesrson they seem to be a good sort of hobby provider which does care about the hobby and the players. With them being only a couple of guys trying to satisfy all the orders that can take a huge toll on them espcially if they have to cast up everything themselves.

We are all circumventing the middle men and complaining when we can't get their benefit. Personally I'm cool with recieving whatever I order whenever, as long as I recieve. While the expectations of the modern age are to insist on as close to instant gratification as possible I think any expectations to even recieve anything within a given month when they're purchased from the manufacturer are silly.

Its only when its an additional service you're paying for to recieve it in a given time frame that you have a right to complain. For example, even still when people order from FW gurantees are on shipping are only to the length of transit time and are made my the shipping company and that info's just passed along. So when people have issues with that type of thing it isn't sellers fault but the shipping company.

The type of complaints people have with small sellers is exactly why distributor exist. The simple fact is when you buy directly from a manufacturer there is no gurantee you will get you order in a quick and timely fashion. That is a luxury you pay a premium for when you purchase from a retailer who purchases through a distributor. We are all circumventing the middle men and complaining when we can't get their benefit.

Small sellers are able to sell at the price they do because they only keep a minimal stock on hand, ordering or making more as needed. Just to warehouse an inventory of reasonable size to meet peak volumes would never out weigh lossed money to support the warehousing in low peak season, thus cost would come up. So ask yourself is it worth an extra 20% or more to get what you want sooner. Stop demanding a product or serivce not inclusive to type of industry you're buying from.

Well, as I've pointed out to the owners of Armorcast, when they're perceived as being slow and unprofessional, they are going to lose business. I can't defend the way they run their business, but they are honest and excellent at production.

chromedog wrote:FW don't notify that there can be substantial delays - do people stop buying from them?

(Only those who've had their orders delayed like this).
The rest keep on ordering their resincack like sheeple.

Yes.

Received the transfers today..

Polonius wrote:Well, as I've pointed out to the owners of Armorcast, when they're perceived as being slow and unprofessional, they are going to lose business. I can't defend the way they run their business, but they are honest and excellent at production.

Still probably not as much money lost as if their prices were that much higher to allow them to maintain larger inventories.

For those of you defending Armorcast.......

6th June - placed order - not a big one, a few transfers and some "special effects" pieces. Very small, 30 dollars.

10th July - no sign of order. Starting to worry as I'd emailed them twice by this point with no reply........

12th July - Filed a dispute with Paypal - surprise surprise, I get a response from armorcast saying they'd "run out of decals" and it'd be shipped tomorrow (13th July) - Please bear in mind that I have until the 1st of August to uprate my dispute to a claim, and if I don't paypal will close the dispute and find in the defence of the seller (meaning I lose everything cash and order).

29th July - I am going away for a couple of days and I won't be able to update my dispute to a claim as I won't be home until after the 1st. Therefore - I've done it today as I haven't recieved the goods, a refund or any further word from these guys.

The points I'd like to make are these:

1. If something is out of stock it should not be IN STOCK or referred to as such on your company website. If a product is subject to delay in delivery this should be made clear at the point of sale. (BY LAW IN BOTH THE UK AND THE US BY THE WAY!).

2. If you have a busy schedule (ie show season) and you can't answer emails - have you not considered investigating internet wifi access / blackberry or i-phone type devices / or a simple auto-responder message???

3. It does not take from the 13th until the 29th to ship from the US (any part) to the UK via the us postal service/royal mail. I know this for a fact as I import from america on an almost DAILY BASIS in my professional working life.

4. Finally, NEVER make a promise you can't keep. And if you do (by accident or otherwise) COMMUNICATE. Your business reputation depends on it - IF YOU CARE.....

Now, all of you guys backing Armorcast up- if you still think behaviour like the above is in any way Normal or Acceptable from a professional/business point of view - I'm glad you don't work for me. A small business that acts in such a way is destined to remain exactly that (at best). It is simply not acceptable to not communicate with your customers in cases of this type. I would prefer blatant lies than merely silence......






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chapterhouse wrote:From a small business point-of-view..

Anyone who has dealt with me or Chapterhouse knows that I pretty much respond to any emails or phone calls in 24 hours (likely within the hour unless I happen to be asleep).

Good communication is cheap and free. Now people may not like my response, reworking molds, out of stock products etc, but they can never say I dont communicate.

I do agree you need to be upfront about delays as well. We have a few items (mostly resins) that are constantly short-stocked due to demand and production rates. BUT, those items also have been red lettering on their product pages notifying people of the delay.
This may cause sales drops, but it wouldn't be fair to do otherwise.

I hate not having everything in stock as well, my goal is to have 0 outstanding invoices, but that wont happen anytime soon :(.

Saying all of that, I do not think it is unreasonable to have good email communications, explain delivery expectations on your site, even if you are doing this part-time (which I have been for the last 1.75 years).

FWIW,
Nick
Chapterhousestudios.com

Ladies and Gentlemen - here we have an example of a GOOD business operator. TAKE NOTE.