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Ordered 2 sets of Griffon transfers for my Empire on the 17th June. Had an email from them a week later saying my order was "Processing" (Which I was miffed at expecting that to have happened ages ago) but still have received no product, or an email saying that the products were dispatched. Have mailed them twice, expressing my concern, but have received no reply to either.

Its getting near the month mark from when i ordered, and i am a little worried.

Does this company have lots of problems, or is this a 1 off?

Any idea's of what i can do? I really want these transfers.

Thanks for any help.

I've ordered from them multiple times, just very slow to fulfill orders.

It's convention season, and orders can get backed up. I know that in the past they've literally boxed up all the transfers for shows, and then couldn't access them.

You'll get your stuff, it just might take a while.

Armorcast is a nice company done by two busy folks (in their freetime?).
And they attended Origins Games Fair 25th-29th June keeping them busy.
So have mercy for a small garage business.
BTW you can contact them via their forum:
http://armorcast.com/Armorgeddon/index.php

Thank you for the replies, just needed some clarification that i may actually receive my order.

You'll receive your order, but not all games/model companies are the size of GW.

During convention season, many of them are out of office for long periods (especially if there is a major event and minor local regionals around it).

Patience. If you needed it rushed, you should have done so earlier. Good luck is the leftovers of good planning.

chromedog wrote:You'll receive your order, but not all games/model companies are the size of GW.

I still am baffled why people rationalize mediocrity like this. You don't need to be a large company to communicate effectively with your customers. It should not take a full month to ship a sheet of stickers. Period. Nothing further. It's not the customer's fault he didn't order months before he needed them because he should have somehow known they are a poorly run business.

If there are circumstances which necessitate slow ordering processing, there should be a disclaimer on the website indicating such so the person can make an informed purchase. In the event of an unplanned delay in order processing, since you run a web-based business it's safe to assume you have the email addresses of the people who ordered from you, so you should communicate with them that there was a delay, what it was, and what the ETA is.

Neither one of those costs anything. Customer service doesn't have to be expensive or even difficult to be quality. Writing it off as "well, they're just a small business" is, to be frank, crap. My money is just as green when a small business takes it as when Newegg or Amazon takes it, and I expect it to be taken just as seriously.

FFS.

It's a two-person operation.
If they are out doing the schmooze at conventions to pimp their wares, then NO-ONE is going to be home answering emails, neh? Some of the one and two man ops here do this. This is normal.

Newegg and Amazon are by comparison, GWs of their markets. Amazon has not been a small operation in many many years.

Which part of putting a message on the website indicating they were going to a convention and orders would be delayed was out of the question? I mean, they knew they were going to the convention first, right? Is this really so unreasonable?

I never said Newegg or Amazon were small operations. In fact, I said quite the opposite. My point was these are large companies with good customer service, largely because they have good communication - and I have the exact same expectations for that service from small operations then I do for the big ones. I work hard for my money and whether it's one dollar or one thousand dollars, if I bought something from you I expect a professional handling of my order.

If I order a sheet of stickers, and they haven't found the time to drop it in the mail with a stamp on it in a month, then "FFS", as you say, is exactly right, just not the way you meant it. People don't mind waiting if they know why.

To put it a different way, if they provided that kind of service on Ebay, they'd be kicked off within a few months because their DSR's would be too low. I expect the majority of sells on ebay are also small operations as well. Why do we have such a lower set of expectations from small wargaming operations? If we keep accepting this, then the bar is lower and it is perpetuated - why feed them steak when they'll eat poo?

Then maybe you shouldn't order from small companies.

BTW the Armorcast people are essential to the hobby scene as they enable several small product lines to stay alive: Old Armorcast was discontinued before they bought it, Olley's armies was OOP before they took over the range etc.

In their forum they announced to be off at Origins. You can always contact them there. But it is still a garage business done by two enthusiasts in their freetime, not Amazon or GW.

Saying I shouldn't buy from small companies is missing the point. The point being, I don't frequent the establishments of any business which does not comport themselves in a professional manner - to whit, handling packages in an efficient and timely manner within established time-frames, and when there are exceptions, providing clear and reasonable communication. Which part of this is so elusive to grasp? It's not like it's not possible for small companies to provide excellent customer service. Romeo can do it. Neal can do it. Fenris Games can do it.

I work hard for my gaming dollars, and I'm not giving them to people who can't.

Ouze wrote:It's not like it's not possible for small companies to provide excellent customer service. Romeo can do it. Neal can do it. Fenris Games can do it.

There is that, yes. On the other hand, at least Armorcast isn't engaging their competitors in frivolous lawsuits...

Ouze wrote:I work hard for my gaming dollars, and I'm not giving them to people who can't.

The Armorcast people work too hard in their main job and have not much free time left to spend on their hobby, the Armorcast business. They are doing a fine job within these limits. But nobody forces you to buy from them. I will buy from them and appreciate their contribution to the hobby.

Kroothawk wrote:

Ouze wrote:I work hard for my gaming dollars, and I'm not giving them to people who can't.

The Armorcast people work too hard in their main job and have not much free time left to spend on their hobby, the Armorcast business. They are doing a fine job within these limits. But nobody forces you to buy from them. I will buy from them and appreciate their contribution to the hobby.

I do a bit of this... I have a 40+ hour a week day job and then try to fit side work in around it. It can be very frustrating. The day job pays the bills, which means it pretty much has to have first call on my time. I get frustrated because I have trouble finding time to work on projects for DP9 and my own stuff. I'm very glad I'm not a 'key' guy for DP9 and can make-do on the weeks when I can only give a couple hours to side work.

Side work, for me, is fun and gives me an better sense of accomplishment. But it's not going to pay my mortgage.

I'm guessing it's much the same for the Armorcast crew.

I never meant to sound rude about the company, or put down what they do. I was just concerned to whether i was going to receive either my product or money back, seeing as i hadn't heard anything in a while. I understand that they are a small company and stuff gets in the way, but I was generally concerned that the little money I do have was lost.

Ouze is correct.

The only reason they did not put a notification on their site that there would be delays, is that they knew less people would order if they knew upfront they would have to wait longer than reasonable, it's completely shady.

FW don't notify that there can be substantial delays - do people stop buying from them?

(Only those who've had their orders delayed like this).
The rest keep on ordering their resincack like sheeple.

They've sent me emails in the past whenever there was a significant delay due to mold breakage etc .... mabye because i order a lot? lol

Also, the fact that someone else is doing it isn't justification to do something below the board.

kill dem stunties wrote:Ouze is correct.

The only reason they did not put a notification on their site that there would be delays, is that they knew less people would order if they knew upfront they would have to wait longer than reasonable, it's completely shady.

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. My friend works with them, and the guy who runs the website simply forgot to post that they were going to origins.

I agree in principle that while you'll cut a small company a week's slack, over a month gets ridiculous. I passed the complaint up to my friend, so hopefully there will be some action soon.

I've ordered from Armorcast and I will also add I found them very slow to ship for just a few sets of waterslide transfers. That being said, their communication was always top notch.

chromedog wrote:FW don't notify that there can be substantial delays - do people stop buying from them?

A.) People also complain about forgeworld's slow shipping. It's not like they get a free pass here.
B.) I generally no longer order from FW because they are too slow - i'll can get their stuff on Ebay or elsewhere, instead
C.) However, Forgeworld does set reasonable expectations for slow shipping times to the US - 28 days
D.) As someone else has said, "it's OK to provide craptacular service, because someone else did it" is the kind of excuse you'd expect from a child, not a professional business

Im coming at this from two different angles now.

From a personal view i apreciate that small buisness are often one or two man bands and to be frank its these people that make the hobby so great. Forgeworld is still a small company compared to GW. Alot of companies with resin espesialy actualy have to produce the stuff before shipping it to you, i apreciate this. But i do agree if they know it will take time to let their customers know.

From a buisness view its different. I will always try my hardest to get products to the customer in time and i will always publicise any delays i know about on my website. But not every delay you know about, dont forget being one man bands its not just buisness stuff that affects us, we have a family, freinds, kids maybe, parnters etc that all demand our time. And we also need time to ourselves. I cant just ask someone else to do my orders and everything else for me for a day or two as it is only me doing it all. I will always if i can email a customer to let them know of any delays, to me that makes good buisness sense and is also polite. All companies need repeat trade but even more so us small buisness. i try my hardest to get it right every time so hopefully the customer will keep coming back. At the end of the day if things are not right people will speek with their wallets and go elsewhere and that is not what i want.

Ouze wrote:

chromedog wrote:FW don't notify that there can be substantial delays - do people stop buying from them?

A.) People also complain about forgeworld's slow shipping. It's not like they get a free pass here.

Most of those people are also paying for Express Shipping from the UK to the US and expecting it to be there within 3-4 days. That's kinda ridiculous. It's going to be 1-2 days stuck in customs, at least--and remember that the USPS(which is the agency that will be handling your stuff) doesn't work on Sundays.

Add another day for transit from the customs holding, two if you're on the West Coast--and that's not even counting if something has to be cast to order, or if it's a popular product(which they'll contact you via email to inform you that the item may be backlogged and you can opt to cancel your order then and there, or wait and they'll upgrade from standard shipping to express at no charge--and remove the S&H fee from your order). If something has to be cast to order or it's backlogged, expect at least a week for something to even be shipped.

C.) However, Forgeworld does set reasonable expectations for slow shipping times to the US - 28 days

I think the only time you'll ever see it get past 10 days at this point is if something gets shipped on a Saturday, and then there's two sequential national holidays along the way.

Polonius wrote:Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. My friend works with them, and the guy who runs the website simply forgot to post that they were going to origins.

Funny thing is, it was announced on Dakka:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/301535.page

chromedog wrote:You'll receive your order, but not all games/model companies are the size of GW.

During convention season, many of them are out of office for long periods (especially if there is a major event and minor local regionals around it).

Patience. If you needed it rushed, you should have done so earlier. Good luck is the leftovers of good planning.

Unless there was a message posted on their homepage how was he supposed to plan around it? Look the bottom line is no matter how busy you are you still have a responsibility to keep your customers informed about what is going on. Your statement is patronizing and mostly an ignorant one. If I enter into a business arrangement with you (even if it is just for a couple of transfers) you have the moral and ethical obligation to keep me updates on what is going on if there is some reason you can not get me the items within a normal period of time. So really stop blaming someone for purchasing something.

Having said all of that Armorcast is known for being slow so don't worry right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chromedog wrote:FFS.

It's a two-person operation.
If they are out doing the schmooze at conventions to pimp their wares, then NO-ONE is going to be home answering emails, neh? Some of the one and two man ops here do this. This is normal.

Newegg and Amazon are by comparison, GWs of their markets. Amazon has not been a small operation in many many years.

It has nothing to do with answering emails (which could be done while at the convention it isn't like they get 100s a day) it is simply that they could have placed something on their homepage about it...... easy and takes less than five minutes.

Really, if it's going to take a week to recive a 'processing' letter and attending a fair for the "25th-29th June. is going to mean that four weeks later he hasn't recived his order - you are going to try and defend the company because it's 'garage run by two people'?
Where's a little notice on the site that there may be delays or when not a notice in the processing email that postage my be slow?
When on earth does a 6 day fair mean one waits another two weeks for nothing to have appeared?

What's going to happen is I'm going to tell them my stuff has been lost in the post and I'd like a refund. I'm notgoing to be buying from them again otherwise and they'll stay a 'garage run by two people' and not a very sucessful one.

Indie / garage companies can have a hard time keeping up with their workflow. Zuzzy games is a great example of a company with an amazing product... that is completely buried beneath the mountain of orders they've received.

I agree, though, that if you're going to be slow on delivery, you'd better be quick on communication.

ChrisCP wrote:Really, if it's going to take a week to recive a 'processing' letter and attending a fair for the "25th-29th June. is going to mean that four weeks later he hasn't recived his order - you are going to try and defend the company because it's 'garage run by two people'?
Where's a little notice on the site that there may be delays or when not a notice in the processing email that postage my be slow?
When on earth does a 6 day fair mean one waits another two weeks for nothing to have appeared?

What's going to happen is I'm going to tell them my stuff has been lost in the post and I'd like a refund. I'm notgoing to be buying from them again otherwise and they'll stay a 'garage run by two people' and not a very sucessful one.

While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, and I have in fact admitted freely that while Armorcast are very professional at casting, they're business acumen is weak, I must point out that announcing that you intend to commit mail fraud is not exactly wise. Nor does help your case that you're an injured party.

I've ordered from Armorcast in the past, and had no complaints. The resin-cast product was everything I hoped it would be, and it arrived in a timely fashion. I would have no qualms about ordering from them again.

I suppose it depends on your personal experience.

Polonius wrote:

ChrisCP wrote:Really, if it's going to take a week to recive a 'processing' letter and attending a fair for the "25th-29th June. is going to mean that four weeks later he hasn't recived his order - you are going to try and defend the company because it's 'garage run by two people'?
Where's a little notice on the site that there may be delays or when not a notice in the processing email that postage my be slow?
When on earth does a 6 day fair mean one waits another two weeks for nothing to have appeared?

What's going to happen is I'm going to tell them my stuff has been lost in the post and I'd like a refund. I'm not going to be buying from them again otherwise and they'll stay a 'garage run by two people' and not a very sucessful one.

While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, and I have in fact admitted freely that while Armorcast are very professional at casting, they're business acumen is weak, I must point out that announcing that you intend to commit mail fraud is not exactly wise. Nor does help your case that you're an injured party.

Committing mail fraud? My item has not appeared after an extended period of time and I said I would tell them - Please explain how this is committing fraud? "My item hasn’t arrived." true/false?, it could actually be that they have posted the item in due time and it is lost, am I still committing fraud then? Seriously, think before you make accusations - irrational defence of a company sheesh - I suppose when phone companies and the like refuse to honor their warranties this is okay because apparently a huge number of people try to abuse them? - and given my scenario was hypothetical enjoy your hypothetical fraud case