most annoying

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Scott-S6**

Da_Mega_Grot wrote:so if I brought 3 rhinos all non upgraded and since i chose not to glue the s-bolter on you would get angry???

I wouldn't get angry. But I would insist that you measure range and draw LoS from the weapon as per the rules.

What's that? The weapon is back at your house? I guess it's out of range then.

If an event has a declared WYSIWYG standard then you abide by it.

**Grimtuff**

What I find most annoying is the blatant abuse of Homophones within this thread. Gah!

**Scott-S6**

Grimtuff wrote:What I find most annoying is the blatant abuse of Homophones within this thread. Gah!

If that annoys you I think you need to stay off 99% of the internet!

**scooter**

Kronk wrote:

40,000 years into the grimdark future, there is only war...and OSHA.

Incorect my good sir, 40,000 years into the grimdark future, there is only war OSHA...and cher.

**CptZach**

Scott-S6 wrote:
Da_Mega_Grot wrote:so if I brought 3 rhinos all non upgraded and since i chose not to glue the s-bolter on you would get angry???

I wouldn't get angry. But I would insist that you measure range and draw LoS from the weapon as per the rules.

What's that? The weapon is back at your house? I guess it's out of range then.

If an event has a declared WYSIWYG standard then you abide by it.

WYSIWYG in the main rulebook only applies to special characters and their upgrades. There is no mention of vehicles or regular infantry. And since most events say "everything must be WYSIWYG according to the BRB" you don't actually need to model all wargear on vehicles or troops.

**Daemon-Archon Ren**

CptZach wrote:

WYSIWYG in the main rulebook only applies to special characters and their upgrades. There is no mention of vehicles or regular infantry. And since most events say "everything must be WYSIWYG according to the BRB" you don't actually need to model all wargear on vehicles or troops.

Actually, it doesnt mention "Special Characters" at all, Its in the "Characters" section which references Independent Characters and "Upgrade Characters" (Such as a seargent in a tac squad)

Most special characters actually come with pre-set wargear which not only allows for little to no options of wargear, but normally already includes the wargear on the model. It would make no sense to incorporate WYSIWYG to Special Characters... which is why they don't (Special Character's section is on Page 49, Character types/WYSIWYG is on page 47)

THE RULES SECTION: CHARACTERS 47 wrote:

Independent characters are represented by individual
models, which fight as units in their own right. One
of the most useful abilities of independent characters
is to join other units in battle, so that they can move
in to bolster the battle line where the fighting is
fiercest. If a model is an independent character, it will
have its own entry in the appropriate Codex, and its
rules will also clearly state that the model is an
independent character. Bear in mind that there are
other models that only ever fight as units of one
model, but are not independent characters.
• Upgrade characters are fielded as part of units from
the start of the game, representing a squad leader or
unit champion, such as a Space Marine Veteran
Sergeant. They do not have an entry of their own
and are effectively just another trooper in their unit,
with enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider
selection of weapons and wargear choices.

‘What You See Is What You Get’
Character models in particular tend to have a lot
of options as to what weapons and wargear they
can use – given in the army list of their Codex.
The rule is that such equipment must be visually
represented on the model so your opponents can
clearly see what they are facing. This concept is
often referred to as WYSIWYG, which stands for
‘what you see is what you get’.

THE RULES SECTION: CHARACTERS 49 wrote:
SPECIAL CHARACTERS
The 41st Millennium is filled with famous characters
renowned as legendary heroes or infamous villains –
these unique individuals, who stand out from normal
characters because they have a personal name and not
just a title, are called ‘special characters’. Special
characters are highly skilled and dangerous heroes who
have incredible traits or skills that make them
particularly valuable to an army.
For example, Commissar Yarrick is without doubt the
most respected Imperial Guard Commissar in the
Imperium, his inspiring presence securing the world of
Armageddon against two massive Ork invasions within
the space of fifty years. An army led by him can expect
great benefits in terms of morale and leadership.
On the other hand, Khârn the Betrayer, an Exalted
Champion of the Blood God, is a mad slaughterer of
men, with no thought for anything other than personal
combat (at which, it must be granted, he excels).

As far as Vehicles are concerned, it specifies in the "Vehicles Shooting" section that you must measure range/check line of sight from the BARREL of the weapon being fired and uses said weapon's MOUNTING to determine its arc/ability to fire. So actually, you are correct in saying that you don't "Have" to model the wargear on a vehicle, but (according to the BRB), if you do not, then you cannot legally (as per the rules) fire the weapon as you would not have a BARREL to fire from, nor a MOUNTING to determine the arc for the weapon which has not BARREL to begin with.

Sorry, had to butt in there.

**Balance**

MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:For me, it's when I see some models which are expertly painted, beautiful shading, a complete work of art... but then I notice they've added Warning Stripes to the model.

I don't.. why. Is there an 8th High Lord or Terror - the Grand Marshall of 'Adeptus Health & Safety'?? WHY ARE THERE WARNING STRIPES ON A TITAN?! IS THERE A LEGAL REQUIREMENT WARNING ORKS FROM TRYING TO CLIMB IT?! WHY ARE YOU WARNING PEOPLE TO AVOID CONTACT WITH A CHAINSWORD OR POWERFIST?! DO THE IRON WARRIORS HAVE A LEGAL DEPARTMENT? WERE THEY NEARLY WIPED OUT BY A CLASS ACTION?!?

WHHHHYYYYYYYYY?!??

i'm ok now.

Well, they look kind of cool.

As a paid shill for Dream Pod 9, who has been using hazard stripes as a core motif for over a decade now, they do look neat. They can definitely be over-used, though.

I think warning marks of all kinds make models look a bit more 'professional', less "we're a bunch of crazies with chainsaws." Imperial Guard vehicles, for example, I can definitely see with markings to minimize accidents. Don't step here, beware there's nasty stuff behind this panel, this panel will smash you against the wall when the 'Overcompensator' cannon fires, etc. Titans should definitely have some, even if they're hand-painted by Adeptus Mechanics workers instead of stenciled on.

I don't think Space Marines would go too far with it. They seem a bit more 'knightly' and it doesn't fit as well. You don't get to be a Space marine without knowing you shouldn't stick your hand in a moving engine, I guess.

Of course, this is all subjective.

**Scott-S6**

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:As far as Vehicles are concerned, it specifies in the "Vehicles Shooting" section that you must measure range/check line of sight from the BARREL of the weapon being fired and uses said weapon's MOUNTING to determine its arc/ability to fire. So actually, you are correct in saying that you don't "Have" to model the wargear on a vehicle, but (according to the BRB), if you do not, then you cannot legally (as per the rules) fire the weapon as you would not have a BARREL to fire from, nor a MOUNTING to determine the arc for the weapon which has not BARREL to begin with.

Sorry, had to butt in there.

Exactly. Without a special dispensation to ignore that you are out of luck.

**ShivanAngel**

One of mine is parents who drop there 12/13/14 etc year old kids off at the gaming store and just leave them there. WE ARE NOT BABYSITTERS.

Im not saying all those kids are immature and cause trouble. Actually there are some that I dont mind walking through the door cause it means i will get a game in with a decent opponent... There are also some older players that are less mature then said kids....

There are some tho, that just walk in after the parents drop them off that just cause trouble...

**Blarglord**

I always have to play Horde armies (I'm attracted to them for some reason: Orks in 40k and starting Skaven in WHFB) Getting out and putting up my troop choices sucks.

Constantly rolling bad on my Power Klaw rolls that could have won the combat.

People bickering about the rules with other people when you are the one playing them.

Apocalypse games are the worst about rule lawyering. Two hours to get one turn done to constant rule bickering.

**Claypool**

For everyone else who said rolling badly on PK attacks, I agree! Buzzsaw Kopta vs. Noise Marines. I've taken one wound and am swinging back, all three attacks hit. To wound rolls:

. I get sweeping advanced and my boyz get shot to hell and back the next turn.