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Well, it kinda makes sense.

Telion is actually Loaned out quite abit. and many other chapters might have a telion-esk scout sergeant.

Sicarius and Lysander are just buffed captains.

Vulkan represents Master artisinry is prevelant in the Chapter.

Shrike represents a chapter liking Stealth and HtH combat.

Khan is a buffed bike captain.

Calgar is, well, Calgar.

Pedro Kantor is a chapter that specializes in Holding battle lines.

Tigerius represents a master Libby.


so Calgar is really the odd man out.

@Brettila - I don't like the idea of army-specific SCs being adapted to work with any-old army either, but it does allow for people to personalize their army (as stated by SaintHazard,) and provides extra income to GW by selling extra character models (as stated by you.)

IMHO, I don't see how the DAs are similar enough to combine them in a codex with standard SMs... The First and Second companies are designated for the Deathwing and Ravenwing respectively, which varies greatly from standard Astartes Chapters. As far as I'm aware, BAs follow the Codex Astartes (with exception of Death Company and Sanguinary Guard) a lot closer... Maybe they should have be merged in a VSM codex too, as already stated? Well... No. But neither should the DAs.

Back before the current SM codex, when the DA codex was released, it was a lot different from the vanilla marines...

Then the new SM codex came out... It incorporated a lot of the rules that made the DA codex unique (first appearance of the Combat Tactics trait, in it's current form, anyone?) and on top of that, they improved a lot of the rules/units too (reduced points costs, better characters, psychic powers, etc.) which was the final nail in the coffin...

And as for the DH... If we use the CSM codex as an example, GW seems to be separating/simplifying the codexes as much as possible, which makes it hard for me to believe they will release a =I= codex with DH, SoB and Inquisitor Units combined. While I would love to see this happen, GW is just not that generous...

I'm not bitching (much) and know there're worse codexes out there... I have great sympathy (and admiration) for the DE, Necron and other neglected army players, who have stuck with a gak codex for much longer then DAs players.

TL; DR

But my wish list for DAs and DHs...?

DAs - Expand the fluff, with more emphasis focused on the hunt for the Fallen... There is a lot of rich background that can be derived from The Fallen concept... Embrace it! i.e. special rules/units/wargear for elite Fallen-hunting units maybe? Plasma everywhere! Bring back Azreal (sp?), I miss my SC Interrogator Chappy. Actually I could go on forever, so I'll stop there...

DHs - One, giant, Inquisition Codex... Full of background and units from all facets of the Inquisition. I don't play any of the related =I= armies, but it would be a book I would buy solely out of interest!

Chaplain Asmodai does need to come back I agree, and I'd love to see DA become more divergent I just don't think the current incarnation is anything that different to the starndard codex, I'm currently working to expand my DA's as I only have 2 Tacs and Asmodai & Ezekiel, I would have got more already but with the current codex they would be almost identical to my UM/RG armies in actual army lists, the fluff for them is less codex than the BA but the table top representation is much closer to Codex than BA.

Brettila wrote:For what it's worth (2 cents, current reduced market price), the one glaringly piss-poor rule in the SM codex is that one paragraph on page 127. Any chapter's SC's can be in ANY army; just give 'em a new name! Lamosaurus erectus! The point of playing an army is that you picked the army. Changing SC's as often as your shorts seems like nothing more than a tactic to sell very expensive single models. Sadly, it is working.

Someone hasn't been paying attention.

See my point on this above.

@Overmind - I disagree regarding DH and WH being condensed. To diverge from the topic a bit, let me tell you why.

Every single DH player I've met does not play DH. They play GK.

Every single WH player I've met does not play WH. They play SoB.

SoB and GK are two radically different factions with different fluff and different rules. One's human, one's arguably not, and they're the militant arms of two different branches of the Inquisition. And even then, not really! SoB are only used as the militant arm of the Ordo Hereticus, but have no official ties to them. They're actually the militant arm of the Eccelsiarchy. Remember when it was decided that the Ecclesiarchy may not "maintain men under arms?" Yeahhhh. Hence, Sisters of Battle. Anyway, to get back to my point, in no way do the SoB and GK belong in a codex together - you could argue they barely even belong in a codex with the Inquisition.

I personally think the =][= should get a codex of its own, with all the =][= pretties, such as assassins, inquisitors and retinues, Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, etc. Then, SoB and GK should get codices of their own.

Putting all three of the above into one codex would be like putting Eldar and Dark Eldar in the same codex. They're just too different to make it work.

The only reason DA aren't classed as too divergent from Codex Marines is because of their current beta test codex

GW need to give them the SW and BA treatment in their next codex, and they'll be plenty divergent.

Bartali wrote:The only reason DA aren't classed as too divergent from Codex Marines is because of their current beta test codex

GW need to give them the SW and BA treatment in their next codex, and they'll be plenty divergent.

Fingers crossed but I don't want the Watchers to suddenly come out wielding relic blades with a 2++ save

Yeahhhhh... if they give them "the BA treatment" I'll have no choice but to begin hating them as much as I hate BA.

I want GW to expand on their codex, not write it as if it was based entirely on fan spank. That goes for fluff, army list, special rules, everything. No thank you.

And I like SW, but I have to admit their codex isn't much better. It's not quite as over-the-top in fluff as BA, but whoever writes the fluff on their special characters really doesn't have much of an imagination.

Grey Templar wrote:the reason i say DA need to be in with Codex Marines with 2 Special charectors is this.

other then Raven and Deathwings the DA are basically the same as Vanilla marines.

they aren't deviants from the Codex Astartes like all the other codexs. they simply have the option to play using the First company and Assault company rules. Vanilla marines can run bikes as troops so that is covered. Vanilla should be able to run First company too.


all other Marine codexs have really good reasons to have their own codexs, their rules are significantly divergent. DA, other then fluff reasons, don't.

lol wut? You do realize that the DA codex was pretty much Beta SM codex and thats the reason they play rather similary. Pretty much all the units that really differ in the SW and BA codexes are new units that got implemented this edition so I fail to see your logic. SW deserves a codex of thier own because they have some units riding gigant wolves? Why would that be any diffrent compared to DAs using a few Jetbikes. Imo there is no doubt that DA is more different compared to Standard Codex astares than BA.

SWs don't have a single unit, aside from Tanks, that is the same as Codex: SMs.

BAs are allowed to run Assault squads as troops and they have a Chapter wide special rule(Red Thirst) and many special units.


DAs have fearless terminators and can run a Bike Army. Codex: SM can run a similer bike army and, at least from a fluff stand point, should be able to run an all terminator army. DA basic troops are the same as Codex: SM.

unless they add in some fluffy, and different, special rules for all DA uniits then they will just be Vanilla marines with an all terminator option.

true, SW have diffrent names for all the standard Codex units i.e Long Fang = Dev, Grey Hunter = Tac and Blood Claw = Scout and they might infact be a little more diffrent. BA however is most certainly not.

I really cant follow your logic when it comes to BA, they can take Assault Marines as troops so they deserve a Codex of thier own but DAs that can take both bikes and terminators as troops can not? From a fluff point of view an all assault army should be doable for any chapter as well. As for the army wide rule, it was only until this codex that they lost it.

What Im trying to say is that all the reasons you list for the need of a stand alone codex for BA can be applied to DAs aswell.

Long Fangs > Devestators(5 weapons, Split fire)

Grey Hunters =/= Tacs(Counter attack, 2 CCWs, 2 Special weapons)

Blood Claws =/= Scouts(3+ save, +2 attacks for charge, greater numbers)


BA follow the Codex in Name only. Special rules make all the difference. also their Assault squads can take Melta guns(Big difference)

if Vanilla SM could run Assault marines as troops then you would have a point.

BA can also run DC as troops

also, EVERY vehicle is FAST. LRs can DS(Kinda stupid and pointless, but it is a difference)

Furioso librarians..........

tedurur wrote:From a fluff point of view an all assault army should be doable for any chapter as well.

Noooo, they couldn't. The Codex Astartes is very clear about the roles of different Space Marine squads within the context of 1) a company and 2) a battlefield detachment. Every Codex chapter is made up of a vast majority of tactical marines, and that's intentional. BA using Assault Marines as troops is a huge deviation from the Codex.

Theoretically, chapters that use the vanilla codex (with a few exceptions, such as the White Scars, Raven Guard and Crimson Fists) are Codex chapters. Therefore vanilla marines should not be able to take assault marines as troops.

SaintHazard wrote:

SoB and GK are two radically different factions with different fluff and different rules. One's human, one's arguably not, and they're the militant arms of two different branches of the Inquisition. And even then, not really! SoB are only used as the militant arm of the Ordo Hereticus, but have no official ties to them. They're actually the militant arm of the Eccelsiarchy. Remember when it was decided that the Ecclesiarchy may not "maintain men under arms?" Yeahhhh. Hence, Sisters of Battle. Anyway, to get back to my point, in no way do the SoB and GK belong in a codex together - you could argue they barely even belong in a codex with the Inquisition.

I personally think the =][= should get a codex of its own, with all the =][= pretties, such as assassins, inquisitors and retinues, Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, etc. Then, SoB and GK should get codices of their own.

Putting all three of the above into one codex would be like putting Eldar and Dark Eldar in the same codex. They're just too different to make it work.

I 100% agree with all your points! They should get a combined codex, and I really want to see them get it... But forums are flooded with different rumors and speculation about what codexes will or will not be released, and their random assortment of release dates. It's very hard to identify which are based in truth or just plain dribble.

The only guarantee we get is that GW is a business, and as such, will release products that maximize profit (which personally I think is fair enough, I run my own business, and that's the ultimate goal for any company!)*

*Thinking about that point actually... Releasing a single, very thick and expensive (compared to other codexes) =][= dex would force all =][= related players to purchase it at the inflated price... Could work for them... Fingers crossed!

DEATH89 wrote:
Chaplain Asmodai does need to come back I agree...

Asmodai! I feel ashamed that I got he’s name soo wrong! And yes, he has to come back!

SaintHazard wrote:
Yeahhhhh... if they give them "the BA treatment" I'll have no choice but to begin hating them as much as I hate BA.

I want GW to expand on their codex, not write it as if it was based entirely on fan spank. That goes for fluff, army list, special rules, everything. No thank you.

Absolutely this! The thing I really worry about is that the BA codex has now set precedent... I haven't spoken to anyone that disagrees that the BA codex is the most powerful dex available at the moment (I'm sure some people do disagree, but I haven't found them yet... )

This leads to each subsequent codex release being comparably, more often more, powerful then the previous one, leaving the older codexes even further behind. Creating huge balancing issues until the point where everything is so disjointed that they have to release the 6th Ed. Rulebook to bring everything back in line... The viscous cycle of GW!

Grey Templar wrote:

Long Fangs > Devestators(5 weapons, Split fire)

Grey Hunters =/= Tacs(Counter attack, 2 CCWs, 2 Special weapons)

Blood Claws =/= Scouts(3+ save, +2 attacks for charge, greater numbers)


BA follow the Codex in Name only. Special rules make all the difference. also their Assault squads can take Melta guns(Big difference)

if Vanilla SM could run Assault marines as troops then you would have a point.

BA can also run DC as troops

also, EVERY vehicle is FAST. LRs can DS(Kinda stupid and pointless, but it is a difference)

Furioso librarians..........

LOL? Seriously...
Do you not see that the for instance GH are the equivalent with somewhat different rules compared to Tac marines?
So Assault Squads as troops > Terminators and Bikes by your logic?
Assault squads can take melta which is a big difference you say, being able to take Plasma Cannons for tacticals was something completly new for DA ect ect
DC are a quite unique thing Ill give you that. All the other units you listed and mentioned are things that are new to this codex. (With the exeption of over charged engines for Rhinos and furios and baal preds is not new, DA have unique units as well)

Anyway, Im done with this.

Oh, I pay attention. Very little gets by me. I do, however, have the right to express my feelings here; as I do with no malice or condescention towards others, which alas, I cannot say for far too many others.

Anonymous slander is quite easy when you do not have to stand before your pummeler.

tedurur wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Long Fangs > Devestators(5 weapons, Split fire)

Grey Hunters =/= Tacs(Counter attack, 2 CCWs, 2 Special weapons)

Blood Claws =/= Scouts(3+ save, +2 attacks for charge, greater numbers)


BA follow the Codex in Name only. Special rules make all the difference. also their Assault squads can take Melta guns(Big difference)

if Vanilla SM could run Assault marines as troops then you would have a point.

BA can also run DC as troops

also, EVERY vehicle is FAST. LRs can DS(Kinda stupid and pointless, but it is a difference)

Furioso librarians..........

LOL? Seriously...
Do you not see that the for instance GH are the equivalent with somewhat different rules compared to Tac marines?
So Assault Squads as troops > Terminators and Bikes by your logic?
Assault squads can take melta which is a big difference you say, being able to take Plasma Cannons for tacticals was something completly new for DA ect ect
DC are a quite unique thing Ill give you that. All the other units you listed and mentioned are things that are new to this codex. (With the exeption of over charged engines for Rhinos and furios and baal preds is not new, DA have unique units as well)

Anyway, Im done with this.

GH are the equivalent but they are significantly different to Tac Marines. And normal Marines should be able to run 1st company, what unique units do DA actually have? Looking through the codex I can't really see anything unique as such, now if their terminators had plasma blasters and relic blades, that would be unique

I think Terminators are powerful enough as they are, let's not give GW any ideas here.

Otherwise we may end up with flying Terminators with two-handed relic blades who can still fire two shots from their bolter and charge, and only roll 1d6 for deep strike scatter.

Yeah no thanks.

I can't emphasize this point enough. DA does not need to be powered up. It does not need the BA treatment. It needs expansion and creativity.

SaintHazard wrote:I think Terminators are powerful enough as they are, let's not give GW any ideas here.

Otherwise we may end up with flying Terminators with two-handed relic blades who can still fire two shots from their bolter and charge, and only roll 1d6 for deep strike scatter.

Yeah no thanks.

I can't emphasize this point enough. DA does not need to be powered up. It does not need the BA treatment. It needs expansion and creativity.

I still think Plasma Blasters would be fitting as DWT weapons, much more fitting than their only other appearance (Captain Invictus).

DEATH89 wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:I think Terminators are powerful enough as they are, let's not give GW any ideas here.

Otherwise we may end up with flying Terminators with two-handed relic blades who can still fire two shots from their bolter and charge, and only roll 1d6 for deep strike scatter.

Yeah no thanks.

I can't emphasize this point enough. DA does not need to be powered up. It does not need the BA treatment. It needs expansion and creativity.

I still think Plasma Blasters would be fitting as DWT weapons, much more fitting than their only other appearance (Captain Invictus).

Perhaps that's a theme that should be expanded on - lots of plasma. Maybe they could have their own LR or something, perhaps with weaponry a la LR executioner.

Plasma blasters were IIRC R- 24" S - 7 AP - 2 ~ assault 2. Perhaps worded differently for 3rd edition, but I do believe that it was to that effect. Although I have to agree - a terminator unit of these would be crazy. A better option would be a plasma cannon instead of an assault cannon/Heavy flamer/Cyclone ML.

The Chapter Approved rules for Captain Invictus was basically a Twin Linked Plasma Gun, So they wouldn't be as bad as Obliterators.

And knowing GW we'll probably get a LR with 5 of the Executioner's guns and S6 ap3 Assault 4 Plasma AC's