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Anyone know if and when the now codexs are coming out?

Hopefully DA won't get a new codex and we'll be lumped in with the next SM one... it'd make a helluva lot more sense.


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Daemonhunters, I believe, are going into a new combined Inquisitorial 'dex.

I would like to see all the SM chapters in one codex but the Black hole at GW demands more money! I would love an Inquisitorial 'dex. I'm waiting for this to come out to start a DH army.

It could be awhile...

Crap... I'll wait then.

Where abouts in Maine do you hail? Ever make Greenhouse Games in Gardiner?

Not news or rumors. Actually had me semi excited that some info on either had come out.

tony_nids_10 wrote:I would like to see all the SM chapters in one codex but the Black hole at GW demands more money! I would love an Inquisitorial 'dex. I'm waiting for this to come out to start a DH army.

I don't think there should be one book... but really, I don't think anyone would complain if the DA were stuck in the vanilla book and Sammael and Azrael were added as special characters allowing yo to take bikes and terminators as troops respectively.

Codex: Grey Knights is rumored to be in December.

Codex: SoB is rumored to be the direction for WH. no timeline though.

It is 50/50 that there will be a combined Codex: Inquisition or the Inquisition will get squatted.



DAs should be combined into Codex: SMs. personally, i think DAs might be the new DE.

DE are rumored to be in Nov sometime. Necrons in Jan.

I would prefer a Dark Angels codex of its own, as it's always been. There are too many deviations from the Codex Astartes for the Dark Angels to be lumped in with the vanilla marine chapters.

Do those of you that propose a merge of the DA codex and the Nilla Codex also support a merge of the BA and SW codexes? DA are just as different compared to those chapters and have a long history of sepparate codexes. Hopefully the crapfest that is the DA codex will be replaced soon.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:I would prefer a Dark Angels codex of its own, as it's always been. There are too many deviations from the Codex Astartes for the Dark Angels to be lumped in with the vanilla marine chapters.

Only in the 1st and 2nd Companies... I never played 4e SM so I dunno if our Company Veterans are unique too (I'd assume they are): But I don't see why you can't just field vanguard marines without backpacks

The way I see it, it just boils down to us having two units that can be taken as troop choices.

I don't want to antagonise people who love the DA's but why do people think DA are actually that divergent? And I mean gameplay wise, because I really like the fluff behind them I just can't see many tabletop differences.

From what I can see its just the SC's (incl. the army modifiers for DW & RW), fearless termi's, and the Librarian & Chaplain differences. All of which could easily be allocated to "having a DA character causes this" or making Interrogator Chaplains an upgrade for normal Chaplains etc

Does anyone get what I mean?

Edited for punctuation

Sure, Death89... though I have to ask whether normal SM Chapters got access to Company Veterans in 4e... if not, just evolve them into Sternguard/Vanguard (that's what I've done with mine at any rate).

They did have vets in the previous book, with much the same options, I do think DA upgrades to generic Codex SM Characters plus DA SC's in the SM codex would sort the problem but then they'd probably get ignored even more

I love the Dark Angels but I don't think there is a point to being forced to buy the extra codex for them. Honestly, last time it was nothing more than a pamphlet. All they need is a small section in the regular codex and maybe an area for fluff. I would rather read about their fluff from the black library anyway.

As for the inquisition, I am a huge daemonhunters, grey knights, all of it. It would break my heart to see them go. I really hope that they get a new codex soon.

Lumping DA into the nilla codex makes sense, but people who say GW should lump ALL SM chapters into a single codex are being ridiculous, or don't play those chapters, or both.

Please, enlighten me. How are you going to lump BA and SW into the nilla codex? Understand that the difference between SW and nillamarines is about as stark as the difference between SM and CSM. Should those two be lumped into the same codex as well? Hell, while we're at it, let's just publish one enormous codex called Codex: Mankind. It'll include SM, CSM, IG, DA, SW, BA, BT, =I=, SoB, and GK. It'll be as thick as your torso and cost $400. Would that make you happy?

SW, BA, and BT all need their own codices. DA aren't different enough to have their own, and can be lumped into the vanilla codex. And honestly probably should be, simply because the last one is very thin, and hardly a codex in its own right.

the reason i say DA need to be in with Codex Marines with 2 Special charectors is this.

other then Raven and Deathwings the DA are basically the same as Vanilla marines.

they aren't deviants from the Codex Astartes like all the other codexs. they simply have the option to play using the First company and Assault company rules. Vanilla marines can run bikes as troops so that is covered. Vanilla should be able to run First company too.


all other Marine codexs have really good reasons to have their own codexs, their rules are significantly divergent. DA, other then fluff reasons, don't.

Don't forget Dreadnoughts.

DA can do dual Plasma cannon and HBs. nice, but not something deserving of a codex. i like my Dual autocannons.

Oh I know, I'm with you.

Just saying.

Don't forget Dreadnoughts.

I wouldn't say strip them down to 2 SC's though Grey, as I like the current ones too much, it wouldn't take that much to put all of them in, and I think the more SC Librarians there are the better, IMHO of course.

DEATH89 wrote:I don't want to antagonise people who love the DA's but why do people think DA are actually that divergent? And I mean gameplay wise, because I really like the fluff behind them I just can't see many tabletop differences.

From what I can see its just the SC's (incl. the army modifiers for DW & RW), fearless termi's, and the Librarian & Chaplain differences. All of which could easily be allocated to "having a DA character causes this" or making Interrogator Chaplains an upgrade for normal Chaplains etc

Does anyone get what I mean?

Edited for punctuation

Why should an Ultramarine army be allowed to use an Interrogator Chaplain? They are a specific brand of Chaplain that belong only to the Dark Angels. Why should an Ultramarine army be allowed to field an all Terminator army by exploiting a special character who has nothing to do with their army? The Deathwing Assault rule doesn't fit with an Ultramarine army either. Why would Ultramarines have access to the last Jetbike in the Imperium? They wouldn't use forbidden technology.

I'm not trying to on your ideas, I agree that the Dark Angels aren't as different as SW or BA, but we are still different enough. Hell, part of what drew me to the Dark Angels is that they had their own book and were different since anything I'd seen in the vanilla codex.

Anyway, based on nothing but my pure gut feeling, the Dark Angels will always have their own codex. We've been around for too long and have enough gimmicks to justify a separate book. And there's enough of us out there that they'll make money off of it. Hell, if/when a new book comes out, there will be enough shiny new toys to make fair weather fans jump on board too.

Just my two cents.

I'm not saying other codex marines should get Interrogators, only the unforgiven (including successors). What I mean is to make the DA stuff part of the SM codex thats only for people who buy the actual DA models/paint normal marines as DA or successors, I'd get rid of the "anyone can have character X" stuff if it were me, so your DA stuff would be DA/Successor only, UM stuff for UM/Successor only, etc, etc.

And likewise the Interrogator Chaplain would be an upgrade only for DA, Iron Fathers would be a Techmarine upgrade for Iron Hands.

Do you see what I mean now, I don't want people using something that should be unique to another chapter, any more than you do, unless they have 1 HQ & 2 Troops painted for each chapter.

Edit: I actually went out and bought a 2 Tactical Squads just so I could field Ezekiel in small games with friends.

There is actually alot of new ideas you can use for the DA codex. You can put in a plasma style Vulkan (That's been coming up alot), a jetbike unit, NEW veterans, and, of course, super special awesome terminators. Just because the codex seems like a POS, it doesn't mean there isn't room for diversity. Did i mention the plasma addiction?

Wait.

Wait wait wait.

So you want DA to be combined with the Vanilla codex, but you don't want special characters to be able to be taken by any army that uses that codex... just DA and its successors. Likewise, I'm assuming (and correct me if I am wrong) that you wouldn't want Cato Sicarius to be taken by anything but Ultramarines and their successors. Right?

So... basically... you want to put two codexes into one physical book instead of integrating them into the Nilla codex?

You're contradicting yourself a little bit here. If you're going to run, say, Sons of the Crusader Emperor Swords Scythes of Dorn, and they're using the vanilla codex, they can take Cato Sicarius, even if they're an Imperial Fists successor chapter. They can also take Lysander, and Kayvaan Shrike, and Pedro Kantor. Because all of these special characters are in the codex they use.

So if you want DA to be merged with Vanilla, you need to allow DA special characters to be used by anyone who uses the vanilla codex.

Now that I delve into this issue further, I'm liking the idea of merging these two codices less and less. Schnitzel is correct. Why should Ultramarines be on a jetbike? Why should Imperial Fists be able to take Interrogators? And your point is that they shouldn't, which requires a major rules change regarding special characters in the same codex.

As it is now, Sons of Orar can take Lysander, White Scars can take Vulkan, Black Legion can take Ahriman, the 808th Cadian can take Iron Hand Straken, and Saim Hann can take Eldrad. And that's how it should be, because that's what allows the artistic freedom that makes 40k so much fun.

I see what you're saying Saint and concede the point to you that you would have to integrate it properly. I'm not really sure how to explain what I mean now. My main fear - and I see this more and more round where I live - is WAAC gamers missing the point of 40k and coming up with unfluffy armies to take advantage of certain character combo's just so they can crush the new players on a Sunday.

I still don't think DA need their own codex, they're barely any different from codex marines, I just don't want UM players taking Ezekiel because they think his rules are better, or like you said IF with Interrogators or UM with Jetbike Captains.

Would you call the 3rd ed codex 4 in one because the UM, CF, IF and Salimanders characters were for those chapters?

Well, players who want to take Vulkan in their UM army are always going to be there, and it may not be fluffy, but that's their prerogative.

As for the 3rd edition codex, yes, the SCs could only be taken by their respective armies, but that's two editions ago. The rules were different then. And if we wanted to revert to that it'd require another major rules change.

In any case, I'm starting to think more and more that GW simply needs to expand upon the current DA codex and give them MORE fluff and possibly even more special rules rather than merge them with the vanilla codex.

Or, like you said, go back to something similar to 3rd edition, which will work just as well, but would be less profitable for GW... so let's be honest, it'll never happen.

In any case, I personally (and this is just me) like the vanilla codex just like it is. I like being able to take Lysander in my army that has no relation to the Fists whatsoever if I want to. Again, it may not be fluffy, but should fluff deny me the chance to play that character, just because I don't play Fists?

Interragators are just better chaplains.

What really makes DA different is the ability to field a complete Terminator army and to a lesser extent an all bike/speeder army.

Vanilla does all Bikes/Speeders better(better options/rules) and SHOULD be able to do an all terminator army. Take a captain in TDA he makes Terminator squads that are 10 strong Troops kinda thing.

For what it's worth (2 cents, current reduced market price), the one glaringly piss-poor rule in the SM codex is that one paragraph on page 127. Any chapter's SC's can be in ANY army; just give 'em a new name! Lamosaurus erectus! The point of playing an army is that you picked the army. Changing SC's as often as your shorts seems like nothing more than a tactic to sell very expensive single models. Sadly, it is working.