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B00M_H3ADSH07 wrote:25 guardsmen vs. 5 assult marines and an epolistry
result=
25 dead guards, no marine casualties

Yes, unless the squad has a commissar and a few power weapons, in which case the marines are toast with only modest casualties to the guard player.

Ailaros wrote:

B00M_H3ADSH07 wrote:25 guardsmen vs. 5 assult marines and an epolistry
result=
25 dead guards, no marine casualties

Yes, unless the squad has a commissar and a few power weapons, in which case the marines are toast with only modest casualties to the guard player.

yeaghhhh...um...the squad did have that, and his hq.

still got smashed


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Ailaros wrote:

B00M_H3ADSH07 wrote:25 guardsmen vs. 5 assult marines and an epolistry
result=
25 dead guards, no marine casualties

Yes, unless the squad has a commissar and a few power weapons, in which case the marines are toast with only modest casualties to the guard player.

Then either you were insanely lucky or he was insanely unlucky, because he should have killed off that entire marine squad in a single round with pretty minor casualties.

When dealing with marines you have two options that will give high chances of success. The problem with dealing with marines is their excellent saves. This means either you make them role so many dice that they will fail some, or you deny them the chance for that save. Each comes with its respective problems.
High volume of fire comes with the problem that you need a place for that fire to come from. Guard are good at putting out large numbers of grunts to do something, but it comes at the price of them not being very good in comparison to others. In order to kill a notable number of marines you need a lot of guys, in one place, at one time. This can become a logistical nightmare of moving guys to where they need to go.
Denying saves comes with a large host of problems. Most are high cost (leman russ, ap 1-3 weapons(ps, plasma, melta)) meaning big bullseye, and you cant get many of them because of high cost, so that bullseyed target becomes closer to a lynch pin. Also there are ways around it. Cover saves are massive issue which you can either deal with, or try to deny. Dealing with it means more chance for them to live, denying the cover is often vulnerable to counter attack (arty, hell hound).

generally denial is more effective, but its survivability, or its reliability of its mechanic working are very questionable. Volume of fire has a high ability to work, and has great survivability meaning you can use it again. Making it work when you need it to can be hellish and even down right impossible, which one you choose depends on what you play. Assaulty should be volume as they come to you, and you want the chance to survive for a counter attack, as most assault marine armies rely on wiping the target on impact, them moving quickly to the next. Shooty is better countered by denying saves, if they can see you, you can see them, and most likely your guns are bigger.

agree with ailaros. if your guardsmen were properly equipped (read: power weapons and at least one commissar) the assault marines are dog meat.
AF

B00M_H3ADSH07 wrote:AWWW are you trying to beat me again JOLLY...
ha, ha, fat chance of that happening
what was it again...
25 guardsmen vs. 5 assult marines and an epolistry
result=
25 dead guards, no marine casualties
r

it was actually 10 guarsdmen and you had a librarian in that squad of marines as well and no i am not trying to beat you


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it was actually 10 guarsdmen and you had a librarian in that squad of marines as well and no i am not trying to beat you

jollycommissar wrote:it was actually 10 guarsdmen and you had a librarian in that squad of marines as well and no i am not trying to beat you

lol. 10 guardsmen without a commissar v. 5 assault marines with a librarian. There's a reason the marine force in question costs, what 4 times more than the guard force in question?

Try Again Bragg wrote:Denying saves comes with a large host of problems. Most are high cost (leman russ, ap 1-3 weapons(ps, plasma, melta)) meaning big bullseye, and you cant get many of them because of high cost, so that bullseyed target becomes closer to a lynch pin. Also there are ways around it. Cover saves are massive issue which you can either deal with, or try to deny. Dealing with it means more chance for them to live, denying the cover is often vulnerable to counter attack (arty, hell hound).

...or you bring a power blob. A well-armed tac squad costs about 200 points. A 30-man power blob costs 225. This circumvents your "expensive" problem, and their stubborn durability handles the "bullseye" problem. Take both out, and you get rid of the "lynch pin" problem. Furthermore, marines don't get cover saves against power weapons, dealing with the "cover saves" problem, and as a 30-man power blob is very tough to kill, you deal with the"vulnerability" problem.

All with a nice little bow.

Oh, and to accent this solution, a 30-man power blob charging a 10-man tac squad loses 4 guys before the marine player loses 6. On your opponent's turn, you wipe the marine squad allowing you to charge your 24-man power blob into another tac squad the next turn.