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Hazard
Intermediate. Between extremes. In this case between great and terrible. Please confirm http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intermediate


Tri
oh sorry. 1300 points. Yes. It seems pretty obvious that the 2000 points will win. Which kind of makes me wonder why *I* have to say it. I mean you should already *know*, right? sigh.......

who is alot of people? can you be a little bit more vague please?
AF

My fist wants to reach through the monitor right now...
Must contain anger...

Anyways, Kans are highly effective, but are prone to 'splody squadron' syndrome, since so many things are easily able to kill it. However, with proper support, like what Tri said, and maybe a few gretchin to act as further meat shields, they will be very tough.

I don't know why I even bother arguing with him when AF speaks pure nonsense 90% of the time.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Hazard
Intermediate. Between extremes. In this case between great and terrible. Please confirm http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intermediate


Tri
oh sorry. 1300 points. Yes. It seems pretty obvious that the 2000 points will win. Which kind of makes me wonder why *I* have to say it. I mean you should already *know*, right? sigh.......

who is alot of people? can you be a little bit more vague please?
AF

? You just told me that 100% of you're army would squash 35% of mine and i fully agree. That on the other hand means nothing when we compare complete armies. So if you're so sure the Kanz suck please tell me the codex and army list you'd use to kill it.

If you want others that use lots of Kanz just go and read the army lists: there's hundreds of variations on the Kan wall.

Tri wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Savior
the kan wall just tries to overload the opponent's anti tank capabilities. alot of armies can't handle it and the walkers just crush them in close combat. It's death to alot of close range armies but it can be a difficult army to play against opponents who can shoot you from far away. I'd call it a good intermediate army but it lacks the tactical flexibility and overwhelming power needed to make a really top tier force.
AF

Do wonder about you Abaddon. Exactly what is it lacking? Kans are cheap and with a kustom force field backing them up difficult to kill. 700pts gets you 9 kans, two kustom force field and a pair of dreads: At 1.5K that leaves 800pts that you can take any thing with; heck you could even take 110 boys in four units, each with a nob and power klaw.

Alternatively, leave out the dreds, and you can pick up 9 kans with rokkits and 2 big meks with kffs for 575, leaving a whole lot of points to buy cooler upgrades than that.

The problem is that a lot of armies nowadays are set up to take out cheap armor 11, and doubling the number of hits doesn't change that, but for 575 points, you can focus a lot of your opponent's firepower. Throw in some warbuggies, Meganobz in a battlewagon, lootas, etc. and you can saturate your opponent's anti-armor.

There's no reason to underestimate HOW cheap Kanz are - the vehicle damage table is a very safe place to be. Remember, Missiles are usually considered good anti-armor 11, and between cover and WS 4, only 1/3rd of a missile shot ends up on the VDT. 1/3rd of those results do nothing, 1/6th glance (1/6th chance of destroying the walker on a glance), and 1/2 pen (1/2 chance of destroying the walker). That means it takes, on average, 9 missile shots to kill 1 KFFed Kan. And at 40 points per, you can afford to let averages play themselves out (remember, you can still assign hits to Kanz that have weapon destroyed or vehicle shaken results on them, meaning that you WILL be getting shots in the shooting phase).

Even the natural enemy of all that is armor 11, the Gun Dread, only has a 35% chance to kill a kan behind a KFF (4 shots, 8/9 to hit, 4+save, 7/36 chance of destruction per unsaved hit)

I really wish this just stayed, what they do good in and what they bad against.

Not an argument, I appreciate those who positively contributed.

I have to agree with Rising Pheonix - overloading the opponents AT combined with 2 KFF's is good stuff!

JSK - your anguish makes me smile
Hazard - I don't know why you do either
Tri - I don't think kans suck. They're a good intermediate force. Please scroll up to confirm.

The_Savior wrote:I really wish this just stayed, what they do good in and what they bad against.

Not an argument, I appreciate those who positively contributed.

Good.
They're cheap, BS 3 weapons mounts with AV11,11,10 and 2 attacks with a DCCW.
Bad
They take up a heavy support slot and don't have any worth while upgrades (why you can't paint them red i don't know)
Setup
Take them in 3's, if possible take 3 of the same weapon (you'll lose them along the way but worth it for when they get ignored). Personally i don't think you should ever take the Kustom mega-blaster or Skorcha option, and rokkits work better on buggies.
Army as a whole?
You like the green tide ... well don't stop just add these guys and you good to go. Kustom force field give you're kanz a 4+ cover save and the kanz give the orks a 4+ cover save (which is an improvement on the normal 5+)

Math. BS3 hits 50% of the time TL BS2 hits 55.5% of the time. This oddly makes the warbuggies one of the best gun platforms the orks have. In fact by using them in tandem you can have a very shooty ork list ... that hits!

Tri wrote:

The_Savior wrote:I really wish this just stayed, what they do good in and what they bad against.

Not an argument, I appreciate those who positively contributed.

Good.
They're cheap, BS 3 weapons mounts with AV11,11,10 and 2 attacks with a DCCW.
Bad
They take up a heavy support slot and don't have any worth while upgrades (why you can't paint them red i don't know)
Setup
Take them in 3's, if possible take 3 of the same weapon (you'll lose them along the way but worth it for when they get ignored). Personally i don't think you should ever take the Kustom mega-blaster or Skorcha option, and rokkits work better on buggies.
Army as a whole?
You like the green tide ... well don't stop just add these guys and you good to go. Kustom force field give you're kanz a 4+ cover save and the kanz give the orks a 4+ cover save (which is an improvement on the normal 5+)

Math. BS3 hits 50% of the time TL BS2 hits 55.5% of the time. This oddly makes the warbuggies one of the best gun platforms the orks have. In fact by using them in tandem you can have a very shooty ork list ... that hits!

Thank you.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:JSK - your anguish makes me smile
Hazard - I don't know why you do either
Tri - I don't think kans suck. They're a good intermediate force. Please scroll up to confirm.

Yep that there is.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Tri
what do you wonder about.... ? how can I be so awesome? how is it even possible? I don't really know. some how, some way, it is in fact possible to be so great

It's lacking because the army is basically playing rock paper scissors with your opponent. If they throw down the wrong kind of army the kan wall is doomed. To your point about 700 points: yeah, so when you attack a 2000 point gunline with your 700 points of high mobility stuff (for arguments sake lets say you spend it all on that), do you really think your 700 points worth of stuff is going to stand up to 2000 points worth of shooting?

Look just because you beat your buddy with something 1 time doesn't mean it's a great army. I gave it it's due - it's a good intermediate force.
AF

But here for some reason you talk about the wrong kind of army and this is what i want to hear about. Show me this army this "wrong kind of army the kan wall is doomed", I'm enthrall. Would i be right in guessing IG?

Savior
They're good at smashing things in close combat. They're good at overloading an opponent's ability to deal with armor. They're good at being exceedingly numerous in true orky fashion. They're bad at mobility, and against certain armies they're doomed.

If you think of it as an armored version of the traditional orky strategy of "kill them in close combat and have more guys than they can kill" then that's pretty much it.
AF

AbaddonFidelis wrote:JSK - your anguish makes me smile
Hazard - I don't know why you do either
Tri - I don't think kans suck. They're a good intermediate force. Please scroll up to confirm.

Only one reply can respond to this...


Anyways, back on topic, children!

I've had a lot of fun and good success with my kan wall. Has yet to lose a game, but that's not a whole lot different from my usual record and my opponents haven't exactly been top notch. Won a tournament at Gencon while only losing 1 unit over the course of all 3 games though.

Backed by boyz and lootas, the kan wall is highly effective at supporting each unit in the formation, is tough, stops vehicles from tank shocking through your boyz (and that's a big deal) and adds in a lot more power klaws than you would otherwise have. Kans are nice for disabling vehicles from range with rokkits or cleaving through every kind of infantry with grotzookas but like most Orks they kill tanks best in assault. 9 strength 10 attacks from a kan mob is a solid way of dealing with even land raiders.

I also find the kans to be very resilient with mek support, typically surviving most games unless they get into combat with something really good at fighting them like an assault terminator squad or have to weather sustained hive guard or loota fire.

The only downside is that my boyz tend to outrun them once I am in assault range. WAAAGH! gets declared and the Orks gain fleet but the kans don't, then the boyz pile in another 6" at the end of the assault phase. Often the kans can't even join that combat on my next round if it is continuing because there is no way they can get into base contact, but more often the boyz finish up and move on to murdering the rest of my opponent's army and are now solidly in front of the kans.

Culler - if you were not to take Lootas - what support option would you take? How many lootas do you normally take?

kaiservonhugal wrote:Culler - if you were not to take Lootas - what support option would you take? How many lootas do you normally take?

You could take Burnas maybe?