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Which is why i will never take my ogres to a competitive setting without a Feedback scroll and possably a Dispell scroll.

very few casters have more then 2 wounds and most will throw 4+ dice at Purple sun to cast succesfully.

Red_Zeke wrote:It's powerful, for sure, but I didn't find it to be as game breaking against my Dwarves as it appeared on paper- even with a worst case scenario of an early IF casting going through my most important block.

I'm expecting this as well... hopefully it holds true! It seems that a lot of people reacted with "WTF!1!?" initially, but have realized that it's something they'll just have to plan for and take into account, like the above ogres player does.

However, I reserve the right to bawl profusely if I lose most of my I3 treekin and I2 treemen to it when I face it

Then you can give him a Feedback scroll

sorry your WEs got nerfed though...


wait...



No i'm not

Yes, I could

And my WE's in particular didn't get nerfed (trees!). They actually got better than in 7th edition! However, I had trouble with them at the few tournies I went to towards the end of 7th, so I'll update more once I've seen how they do in a few coming up for 8th.

Certainly, I'll be trying to steer far, far clear of the purple sun...

I think the most important thing about the lore, is that aside from one really nasty amazing spell. The rest of the lore, is bad. Not just sort of bad, it's lolbad.

It's an "all your eggs in one basket strategy."

God help you if you roll a 1,2,3,4 or a 2345.

Just about every competitive player in the world will have a fast character capable of ganking the units that can cast this spell.

That's the thing, people are looking to invest a load of points in high level mage, then hope they roll up the spell. Then they've got score enough power dice or pick up IF to get it past the other guy's magic defence, then they've got to avoid the chance of the spell backfiring. The payout for success is big, but there's a whole lot of dice to get there.

In my experience long term winning strategies tend to be built around ideas with a lot less dice, or ideas where you can afford a lot more dice being bad.

Mind you, if someone feels they're an underdog and wants to level the odds by leaving a big part of the game up to a few dice rolls, it's a good way to do it.

Well It's quite easy to get the spell, and get it off if you take the right equipment.

First take a level 4 and a level 2 death mage. Roll for level 2 first, if you get the purple sun trade it in for the sig spell, thus increasing your chances of getting it on the level 4. If the level 2 doesn't get it you definately get the spell on the level 4.

Give level 4 a power scroll and BAM! First time you get 6 dice or more you cast with very good odds of getting IF. Of course you can't mitigate the damage if the template lands on your head, but the payout should be worth the risk.

Of course I see what you are saying. The way I play is with a suicide mage (beastmen so skin of man and on a chariot) so if he dies so be it. It is a huge investment in points though, and there are lots of alternatives that aren't so risky.

Lukus83 wrote:Well It's quite easy to get the spell, and get it off if you take the right equipment.

First take a level 4 and a level 2 death mage. Roll for level 2 first, if you get the purple sun trade it in for the sig spell, thus increasing your chances of getting it on the level 4. If the level 2 doesn't get it you definately get the spell on the level 4.

Fair point, but it is adding up to a whack of points to get that one spell. If I was to take a build to get every spell out of a lore I'd prefer the range of good life spells to death and its one really good spell.

Actually, I've been wondering about the merit of taking a mass of lvl 1 and lvl 2 casters all with fire and just spamming fireballs. After a while all those +3s will start to count for something.

Give level 4 a power scroll and BAM! First time you get 6 dice or more you cast with very good odds of getting IF. Of course you can't mitigate the damage if the template lands on your head, but the payout should be worth the risk.

The odds of rolling two or more 6s on six dice is about 25%. Mind you, with a +4 and six dice you're going to average 25 which is enough to get the spell off, and it's possible the other guy won't have the dispel dice to stop you.

Of course I see what you are saying. The way I play is with a suicide mage (beastmen so skin of man and on a chariot) so if he dies so be it. It is a huge investment in points though, and there are lots of alternatives that aren't so risky.

Yeah, it can certainly pay big and swing games in your favour. But it's a big risk, and I don't think too many players like to invest that many points into a dice game.

With a powerscroll any double is IF. Helps bring the % up by quite a bit. But yes, it is most definately a 2 edged sword. Bound to take a miscast and you might roll a misfire.

We should call this purple sun of wins you the game.

So my opponent cast it with IF.

Rolls the art dice !misfire!
Centers the template on his wizard and rolls a 6 and sends it straight down his line
The wizard passes the test, but then rolls a 3 on the miscast table and gets sucked into the warp...

All in all I think it wasted about 700 points of his models (including his BSB).

Ragnar4 wrote:I think the most important thing about the lore, is that aside from one really nasty amazing spell. The rest of the lore, is bad. Not just sort of bad, it's lolbad.

I realize some of this is hyperbole, but I don't really agree with this statement. I would hate, hate, hate to see Doom and Darkness dropped on a critical combat. It's a good way to get around steadfast blocks- and comes with some nasty combos in some lists to boot. I'm not saying it's the perfect lore, but lolbad is overstating things. Therion- a player whose skill and opinion (if not always tone) I respect a great deal had some interesting things to say on the lore in a thread somewhere on Dakka a while back.

RZ

also the soul blight bubble version is just amazing.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:
Interestingly enough, I think this is the overlooked straw that breaks the camel's back. You lose a bunch of models, and then your opponent has a good chance of getting enough dice to do something else nasty(like cast another purple sun, or 3, if they are VC with several Forbidden Lores . Looking at you, Generalian )

I thought you could only cast each spell once a turn this edition barring the 1st ones? Am I smoking something?

You can only cast each spell once...

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

Tzeentchling9 wrote: Interestingly enough, I think this is the overlooked straw that breaks the camel's back. You lose a bunch of models, and then your opponent has a good chance of getting enough dice to do something else nasty(like cast another purple sun, or 3, if they are VC with several Forbidden Lores . Looking at you, Generalian )

I thought you could only cast each spell once a turn this edition barring the 1st ones? Am I smoking something?

Spells obtained without rolling for them(For example, the Focused Mystery or Forbidden Lore) don't count toward the limit. Multiple Forbidden Lore(Death)=Multiple Purple Suns.

ShivanAngel wrote:You can only cast each spell once...

Each wizard can only cast each spell once(Necromancy spells notwithstanding).

IIRC in the brb it says you can't take duplicates of spells, even between different casters. How does Focused Mystery or Forbidden Lore get around that?

Infreak wrote:IIRC in the brb it says you can't take duplicates of spells, even between different casters. How does Focused Mystery or Forbidden Lore get around that?

They spells are not rolled for, just gotten. It's the same with VC Necromancers and their spells.

if by the armies special rules 2 or more wizards have the same spell they may each cast it, but only once each(again barring special rules)

one reason i looooove my ogres. i can make them T and Str10

I thought for choosing spells it was rool, if wizards got the same spells well thats the spells they know but only 1 of them could be cast per turn either from one or the other or am I missing something? Obviously this is in general not the special cases Tzeentchling is on about.
Kinda important as I'm sitting with a lvl 2 MoT and lvl MoT sorc in my list and if i can guarantee one getting the gateway spell or if both were dead for example on getting purple sun the system sounds broken

I've got a page number this time. It's the 5th paragraph on page 490 that stats you can have more than one spell in an army if it is purchased, or the model has no choice(like Festus must have Curse of the Leper).

But the rule governing that each spell can only be cast once is still in place surely? All this really allows you to do is have more options of where to cast the spell from. EG: 2 casters know the same enhance spell, one each flank of the army covering both able to cast where needed and when, or which caster is in range of the unit you want to be able to target with the damage spell.

Vermillion wrote:But the rule governing that each spell can only be cast once is still in place surely? All this really allows you to do is have more options of where to cast the spell from. EG: 2 casters know the same enhance spell, one each flank of the army covering both able to cast where needed and when, or which caster is in range of the unit you want to be able to target with the damage spell.

The rule limiting the number of times a spell can be cast is as follows;
"Each Wizard can only attempt to cast each spell once per turn."

In most circumstances only one wizard will have a spell, but if it two wizards have the same spell (because they can choose it or whatever) then they can each cast it, as it says "each wizard".

Red_Zeke wrote:

Ragnar4 wrote:I think the most important thing about the lore, is that aside from one really nasty amazing spell. The rest of the lore, is bad. Not just sort of bad, it's lolbad.

I realize some of this is hyperbole, but I don't really agree with this statement. I would hate, hate, hate to see Doom and Darkness dropped on a critical combat. It's a good way to get around steadfast blocks- and comes with some nasty combos in some lists to boot. I'm not saying it's the perfect lore, but lolbad is overstating things. Therion- a player whose skill and opinion (if not always tone) I respect a great deal had some interesting things to say on the lore in a thread somewhere on Dakka a while back.

RZ

I have to agree here. I think death is actually pretty darn good. Considering how it is marginally more difficult to get vps in 8th (no half points) killing characters is a quick and easy way to gain a lot of VPs really quickly and death is great at that. You can sig spell warmachines (usually lowish ld), caress and fate characters and purple sun big blocks. Plus the -1s,-1t bubble can be a complete godsend when all of your units hit combat.

Death is about getting vps on the side, from characters, monsters and warmachines. It really only has one bad spell, #1 which, i admit is pretty useless. However rolling 1,2,3,4 gives you 1 spell to target monsters and warmachines, 1 to target wizards and warmachines, 1 to help in all of your combats and 1 to make it so that if you think you will barely win a combat you can see the unit run. Not to bad at all. If you roll a 5 instead of a 3 you dont get any help with combat, but you can really nuke his characters. Plus, if you do manage to kill off a warmachine then you might even get some PD back for a casting of something else.

So I think that death is actually one of the more powerful lores.

sebster wrote:

Vermillion wrote:But the rule governing that each spell can only be cast once is still in place surely? All this really allows you to do is have more options of where to cast the spell from. EG: 2 casters know the same enhance spell, one each flank of the army covering both able to cast where needed and when, or which caster is in range of the unit you want to be able to target with the damage spell.

The rule limiting the number of times a spell can be cast is as follows;
"Each Wizard can only attempt to cast each spell once per turn."

In most circumstances only one wizard will have a spell, but if it two wizards have the same spell (because they can choose it or whatever) then they can each cast it, as it says "each wizard".

Ah yeah was the wording that had the discussion going on with a friend each spell can only be known once in the army hence cast one with a friend. Well if you're paying a premium price for these abilities you expect something out of them, if they're on the cheap side then maybe but will have to trawl through army books to consider balances etc in it. Still having enough dice in a power pool to get a couple of big spells off a turn seems unlikely most of the time just now. But then my rolling sucks

Well, I just got done with my Ard boyz test game with anvil of doom and all that. Just so people know that think this spell isn't broken, I lost the Anvil, flame cannon, cannon X2 ,organ gun, 18 hammerers, Dwarf lord, Demon slayer, thane, BSB, 15 warriors, grudge thrower and master engineer and 12 quarrelers. 65% of my army went poof in one round of magic. So this is the power of that spell, yes I play dwarfs, yes anti magic, but all that doesn't matter when Teclis is on the board, tossing six dice out there and getting casting value plus doubles IR nothing you can do. BE AFRAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, you were clumped together then.....

I had a friend told me a story when his orcs fought a mannfred led VC army....turn 1 mannfred IF'd the purple sun, only to have the artillery dice misfire, and that killed half of the grave guards with mannfred...the resulting IF miscast roll had the rest of the GG killed, and mannfred was sucked into the warp...the VC player called it immediately....

They immediately played a second game...turn 2 of that game mannfred IF'd again and got sucked into the warp...

The dice gods are fickle folks...

Thorgrim_grudgebutter wrote:Well, I just got done with my Ard boyz test game with anvil of doom and all that. Just so people know that think this spell isn't broken, I lost the Anvil, flame cannon, cannon X2 ,organ gun, 18 hammerers, Dwarf lord, Demon slayer, thane, BSB, 15 warriors, grudge thrower and master engineer and 12 quarrelers. 65% of my army went poof in one round of magic. So this is the power of that spell, yes I play dwarfs, yes anti magic, but all that doesn't matter when Teclis is on the board, tossing six dice out there and getting casting value plus doubles IR nothing you can do. BE AFRAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That sounds much like a problem with Teclis as with the spell.

If he rolls 10 thats 30inches with the large blast template you wouldnt have to be clumped together thats nearly half the board, the spell is abit to strong if you get lucky and your against dwarfs/lizardmen, but there are downsides as you may only roll (2 or even misfire).

Most of the time theres a 50ish% chance that the spell wont do anything.

Rolls a misfire, a 2 or a 4 (if your within 12 inches why havent you charged).

A 6 will hit a decent amount of the time, but not that many models,

An 8 or 10 is pretty nasty, and if your bunched up (which dwarves like to do for the 5+ ward banner and immune to psych) it will do tons of damage.

However the spell isnt that omg win. Dreaded 13th is much, much worse.

One word: Teclis.

P.S. I would like to appologize to my last opponent for what Teclis did. You had a beautiful Dwarf Army, and it was a damn shame what happened to those boys.