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Made in us
Purged Thrall





Locked in my Mind

Feel bad for peopke playing against necrons next year...with them actually getting feel no pain and their armour save both a 3+....basically we'll be back taken earlier but we all suffer anyway.

"BROTHERS! War calls you. Will you Answer?"  
   
Made in se
Wicked Warp Spider






Ios

Melissia wrote:
sebster wrote:Yes, we had this earlier, and I explained to you in that thread that your reasoning above is faulty. You ask why bother taking an armour save for a shot that couldn't wound... well why bother rolling to hit for a shot that couldn't beat armour... we should roll the armour save first!
Exactly.

Your argument proves my point for me-- that it technically doesn't matter which order they're in.

Sorry for being a bit literal-minded, but how would you handle Rending and Sniper (and any other effects which modifies armour saves depending on what you roll on your to-wound roll)?

I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

I wouldn't change it at all.

But if it had to change?

I would have rending be based on to-hit. *shrug*

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in se
Wicked Warp Spider






Ios

Melissia wrote:I wouldn't change it at all.

But if it had to change?

I would have rending be based on to-hit. *shrug*

What about Eldar Rangers or others who've got special effects based on certain rolls on hit and wound at the same time?

What I'm getting at is that there's certain units where, if you rolled wound last, you'd end up with a bunch of extra rolls for successful armour saves which would just be "let's see if they really didn't make the save, after all...". I'm not saying that you can't put wound rolls last, I'm just saying that it'll potentially create a lot of strange situations.

Additionally, the current rules are made to be streamlined, something that's necessary in larger games, where to-hit and to-wound are rolled for with minimum amount of different rolls. The number of different weapon stats used to shoot at a squad can be assumed to be rather limited (8 guys using weapon X, 1 guy using weapon X with a better chance to hit, and 1 guy using weapon Y) as compared to the squad targeted (1 Hive Tyrant, 3 Tyrant Guard, 1 Tyranid Prime).
So you pick up 16 red dice, 2 blue dice, and a white die and roll to hit. Under the current rules, the results from the blue and red dice can after this be added together and you then roll those against T6 and the weapon Y (if it hits) can have the white dice re-used. After that you hand the dice over to your opponent who then places each successful dice next to his creatures and rolls them creature-by-creature (the Tyrant Guard being treated like one creature for rolling purposes).

Under the proposed rules, an extra layer of complexity is added to the wounding roll, since each creature (type) has to be taken care of. Instead of rolling one set of red dice and one set of white dice, you are now forced to roll up to 6 sets of dice for wound rolls - simply by using a unit with two weapon types!

This means that the number of rulls required for determining casualties is n*n under the proposed rules against merely n under the current rules (n representing the largest possible number of dice types or creature types involved under any given step).

I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Mahtamori wrote:What I'm getting at is that there's certain units where, if you rolled wound last, you'd end up with a bunch of extra rolls for successful armour saves which would just be "let's see if they really didn't make the save, after all...". I'm not saying that you can't put wound rolls last, I'm just saying that it'll potentially create a lot of strange situations.
In case you didn't notice (you didn't):

Melissia wrote:I wouldn't change it at all.
HINT. HINT. HINT.

Try reading... I have always argued against people wanting to move this stuff around, and never argued for it. Ugh.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/08/27 18:06:38


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in se
Wicked Warp Spider






Ios

Melissia wrote:
Mahtamori wrote:What I'm getting at is that there's certain units where, if you rolled wound last, you'd end up with a bunch of extra rolls for successful armour saves which would just be "let's see if they really didn't make the save, after all...". I'm not saying that you can't put wound rolls last, I'm just saying that it'll potentially create a lot of strange situations.
In case you didn't notice (you didn't):

Melissia wrote:I wouldn't change it at all.
HINT. HINT. HINT.

Try reading... I have always argued against people wanting to move this stuff around, and never argued for it. Ugh.

Oh, sorry, my bad

I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Sorry if I sound irritable. It's cause I am, though I didn't mean to let it show THAT much.

Regardless, I think the current way's fine.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
 
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