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Is using infantry a rare sight as well? A push move can be blocked by any size base, so you really just need a model of any type between Malice and the Jack and he won't be able to reel it in. I guess if you're opponent isn't paying attention it may work.

Killing Infantry is easy when your Warcsster of choice has Excarnate and Death Knell. But like I said, while it's not uncounterable, it is Incredibly good.

In my limited experience:

Unique 'jacks are fun to paint and model, not fun in games.

With the exception of eGaspy and Cankerworm... absolutely slapped the crap out of every heavy I have ever been against... knock down with canker, let the thralls/knights finish off the big baddie while he is on his back with no Def...

No no no! You gotta beat the crap out of the `Jacks with the Banes, then have The Worm finish it off so you can Salvage it and steal it's weapons!

Well, it better be a good weapon
Else a WSC to drop a Seether onto the board is more desirable IMO...

Having options is nice .

I have to interject at this point that we should include Character beasts in this discussion. i.e Makeda and Molik Karn. With pMakedas spells, and the affinity, running this with pretty much any Skorne Warbeasts in mangled metal is one of the nastier forces out there...

Of course Molik Karn is neccessary, he's your caster. Although it seems a bit odd that you need those stupid little caster attachments with him that make you lose if they die...

Mulgg and Tyhon are solid, although their inclusion seems to vary from caster to caster. That wierd thing circle gets has yet to be more than a minor annoyance.

In general you aren't handicapping yourself for not including character jacks/beasts because for all they do there's usually a tax on the additional abilities/stats. On the other hand, many of them offer capabilities that expand what the army can do/handle.

It is odd that while the really expensive characters for Khador and Cryx get the press, the lower level ones tend to offer more. Behemoth and Deathjack hit hard, and are more resilient than their counterparts, but doesn't really expand what the army can do. Beast 09 and Nightmare on the other hand have substantially better threat ranges and other abilities that make them more capable in many situations. In most lists where Behemoth or DJ appears, their lower level counterpart could go in for less points and do the same job and in some instances do it better. The only character from Khador and Cryx that just doesn't seem worth it is Drago. He's just too pricey for an upgraded berzerker.

Cygnar doesn't really have a stellar character heavy. Thunderhead is a serious point sink who you need to build a list around or he'll fry half your army and is defensively the same as any other Cygnar heavy. Rowdy is a respectable 2 pt upgrade, but nothing to write home about and if it comes down to him or an Ironclad and the Piper, he usually won't get the slot. Thorn is cute, but 8 pts for a light that's supposed to be a disposable arc node is a hard sell. And then there's Triumph...

Menoth has nothing but good characters. The Avatar is a steal for 11 pts. Fire of Salvation is solid and Blessing of Vengence should always be used over a regular Repenter because the number of upgrades you get for that 1 point is just slowed. Scourge of Heresy is the first "meh" Menoth character heavy being far too slow and not having a ranged attack or reach.

Retribution only has 1 Character jack, but they're off to a good start considering how well Discordia answers problems the faction has had. Solid range and melee with a good imprint.

Character Jacks are super sweet but in no way auto includes or must haves. Several Casters and Warlocks have spells that work best with as many jacks/beasts as possible, so cheaper jacks tend to be better with them. The Deathjack is amazing, but costs as much as two slayers, in 15 point mangled metal with pGoreshade or Mortenabra I'd pick the two Slayers. The Butcher and pVlad are also great jack casters where more jacks can be much better then more expensive jacks.

At least that's my experience.

I will say this about the "Flagship" Character jacks, (DJ, Avatar, Behemoth, Thunderhead). They bring a certain psychological impact to the game that does have its value. I personally think that, except for maybe the Avatar, they are a bit overpriced for their abilities. However, they provide a distraction that the enemy can't ignore. When you build a list with one of these bad boyz, don't make them the primary WinCon. They are magnets for damage, and will die. However, the amout of pounding that it takes to kill them will allow you to do nasty things behind the scenes. Deathjack is especially good at this, because of his speed, and ability to heal himself.

I think that Character 'jacks are awesome. Since i play CRYX Im really tying to work in the Deathjack and Nightmare.

Character Jacks are good.. they cost more.. 10-12 pts for heavies usually.. but what they get are worth it..

$60 for Deathjack ?

Get it online..

$42.99 and shipping is always only 5.99 ish..

http://www.thewarstore.com/product21877.html

Youll save around $10 a heavy at least most of the time.

From my Cryx/Circle perspective:

Deathjack is fantastic. I feel he is usually a better buy than two Slayers for the same cost. He provides a lot of utility in addition to his raw damage output, and he is made of a thinker cardstock than his paper clad brothers. He makes it into most of my lists.

Nightmare... my desire to own has still not overcome the pricetag, even though I play pDenny a lot.

Canker is pretty cool, but i do not use him often.


Laris is good for his synergies with eKaya, which is good since you don't have a choice. Guard Dog + unyeilding is very nice. The occasional use of his Barcnode for muzzle or dogpile is good, but not game breaking. His high speed plus animus plus eKaya's feat makes for a very nice hit-and-run flank redeploy ability. He is intentionally necessary to make eKaya work properly, IMO.

Megalith. I like him and I use him some, but a lot of the time I'd rather have a Warden and 2 extra points. His animus is fantastic in a lot of cases, but completely ignored in others (just like inhospitable ground). His regen ability is very useful for non-Baldur Warlocks, and is often complained about by my opponents (not as much as DJs soul rendering though). Definitly not an autoinclude, but useful if you have the points.


Other factions:
I occasionally see character jacks/beasts, but none that are autoincludes. Since Skorne is rare around here for some reason, Molik has not been an issue (huzzah!). The Thunderhead is the most common character I see outside the Deathjack. Inside the Deathjack it's to dark to tell.

ummmm Beast-09 and Drago, and Behemoth

all of them yield positive result in my gameplay at various point or is it just me taking Karchev/Butcher?

Butcher does really well with all three of those. Drago is the most situational in my opinion of the three listed. He's only really nice with the Vlads since he won't explode until you want him too. Beast is probably my favorite jack in the game with the Thunderhead a second to him.