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http://www.last.fm/music/Easy+Star+All-Stars/_/Karma+Police

If you like Radiohead and Reggae, you win!

rubiksnoob wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

Chrysaor686 wrote: I mean, there are genres such as punk which are completely devoid of any musical content.

In the words of Paramore, let the flames begin... Why would you ever make such a generalized statement? What exactly are you defining as "musical content?" Every genre has it's ups and downs, but that statement is just total ignorance.

Yeah, that statement is uh. . how do i put this? bull gak.

Point proven.

I'm talking about actual punk music, not the punk music of the popularized and well-produced variety (which defeats the purpose of the genre in it's entirety).

And yes, I will challenge every song you posted as being awful, and basically worthless to anyone who's not interested in angry anti-politics. Except for Gogo Bordello, which can hardly fit into the punk genre (That still doesn't mean that I find his music gratifying in any way).

Chrysaor686 wrote:

rubiksnoob wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

Chrysaor686 wrote: I mean, there are genres such as punk which are completely devoid of any musical content.

In the words of Paramore, let the flames begin... Why would you ever make such a generalized statement? What exactly are you defining as "musical content?" Every genre has it's ups and downs, but that statement is just total ignorance.

Yeah, that statement is uh. . how do i put this? bull gak.

Point proven.

I'm talking about actual punk music, not the punk music of the popularized and well-produced variety (which defeats the purpose of the genre in it's entirety).

And yes, I will challenge every song you posted as being awful, and basically worthless to anyone who's not interested in angry anti-politics. Except for Gogo Bordello, which can hardly fit into the punk genre.

There is different sub genres of punk just there are different sub genres of metal. What your saying is that because you don't like a certain type of punk music it's all garbage?

You may not like them, but you can't say that they are devoid of any musical content.

And as for the video you posted- all I heard was some dude mumbling while some music played in the backround. The Dead Kennedys have more musical content than that, without a doubt. Jello Biafra actually SINGS, unlike whatever that other guy was doing.


California Uber Alles!

rubiksnoob wrote:There is different sub genres of punk just there are different sub genres of metal. What your saying is that because you don't like a certain type of punk music it's all garbage?

You may not like them, but you can't say that they are devoid of any musical content.

The reference I made was directed specifically at punk in it's base form. That doesn't mean that I don't see all sub-genres of punk as practically worthless, but hardcore eastcoast punk is the antithesis of everything that honest musicians strive to achieve.

Is it an over-exaggeration? Yes. Everything that is music has musical content. That doesn't mean the content contained therein is worth a damn. Why would I ever listen to punk music when I can, instead, choose to listen to music that has the potential to expand my understanding of music, and that composers have put an honest mental and physical effort into writing? The concept is beyond me.

Again, I don't value music for the 'feeling' it conveys. I've explained that clearly.

Chrysaor686 wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:well..... if you dont like slower music or a repetitive rhythm thats one thing.... I mean its taste, and everyones entitled to that. Most music is about sound rather than content. Its not just reggae. Thats going to be as true of mainstream reggae as it is of, say, mainstream pop. That entire genre is completely devoid of content. The sound is the only thing that matters.

But reggae really does have as many metaphors as any other genre. Bob Marley described cities as concrete jungles, for instance, or his detractors and naysayers as ghosts. Those are metaphors.
AF

Perhaps 'simplest possible form of music' was a bit harsh. I mean, there are genres such as punk which are completely devoid of any musical content. Reggae might have quite a few layers at it's disposal, but when each instrument doesn't go beyond playing five separate notes, and every song relies on the same exact structure, I fail to find it musically interesting in any way. My taste in music is completely dictated by the content of the music, rather than the sound or the 'feeling' that it is trying to convey.

I'm not saying that reggae doesn't include it's fair share of metaphors, I'm simply saying that hip-hop and rap seem to have the ability to include far more than reggae ever could, if the artist is so inclined. Listen to some early Aesop Rock; you'll see what I mean. Reggae is far too restricted by it's own design to pull any lyrical miracles like this:

Etcetera. This also renders the argument that rap is completely devoid of any deep messages null and void.

Well part of it may be cultural. Alot of the themes taken up in reggae are not really relevant to a white american audience: the colonial legacy of racism and poverty, the religious significance of pot, black power, referring to ethiopia as zion, etc. I think that many Jamaicans would find these kinds of topics much more relevant than an American or British audience would. If you mean Dennis Brown or Bob Marley didnt have content then thats probably true. Dennis Brown was never more than an entertainer. While I wouldnt go so far as to say Bob Marley was a sell out, he certainly toned down the religious and cultural elements that would have hurt his record sales. Peter Tosh didn't do that. As a consequence his music isnt as well known but definitely has more content. Burning Spear is another instance of a reggae artist who definitely had something to say.

The main thing that I appreciate about reggae is that its positive music - its not like rap, which at its best is just about having fun, and only occasionally has something socially positive or constructive to say. I dont want to pigeon hole it as all being gangsta rap but there's no denying that alot of it is obsessed with sex money violence etc. We have enough of that kind of ugliness in our daily lives without confirming it through the music we listen to. Especially roots reggae - like Culture, Peter Tosh, Burning Spear - exhorts people to live upright lives and not contribute to the ugliness of the world. At the worst their pissed off about slavery and anti-pot laws. Well they probably have a right to be. I like having positive music around so that I can try to live a good life, so that's a big part of its appeal to me. Besides that it takes its time, its relaxing. Reggae doesnt have the kind of virtuoso instrument playing that good rock has or the lyrical acrobatics you find in good rap, but it does have its own laid back charm to it....

I guess you can tell I really like reggae..... a/w not trying to be down on your opinion. its not for everyone.
AF

I.... I don't really know where to start with this thread.

Some of you have some very, very strange ideas about music.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Well part of it may be cultural. Alot of the themes taken up in reggae are not really relevant to a white american audience: the colonial legacy of racism and poverty, the religious significance of pot, black power, referring to ethiopia as zion, etc. I think that many Jamaicans would find these kinds of topics much more relevant than an American or British audience would. If you mean Dennis Brown or Bob Marley didnt have content then thats probably true. Dennis Brown was never more than an entertainer. While I wouldnt go so far as to say Bob Marley was a sell out, he certainly toned down the religious and cultural elements that would have hurt his record sales. Peter Tosh didn't do that. As a consequence his music isnt as well known but definitely has more content. Burning Spear is another instance of a reggae artist who definitely had something to say.

For me, it's not really a cultural thing. I tend to disregard lyrics entirely in my enjoyment of actual music, and reflect upon lyrics separately when I feel that they warrant such a treatment. If a lyric does not expand upon my knowledge of the English language and it's usage, offer me true insight into philosophical point of view that coincides with or enhances my own, or give me multiple meanings to wrap my mind around, then lyrics might as well not even exist at all. They are completely inconsequential to my enjoyment of music itself, and I've learned to ignore them completely until I'm in the mood to pick apart some poetry.

You seem to forget the main thing that ultimately separates white people from the enjoyment of reggae music: Rastafarianism is racist as hell. Not that it often manifests itself in reggae, but it certainly doesn't help out the universal message of 'Peace, love, and understanding' when your religion teaches you to hate white people with a passion. It's kind of like a homosexual listening to a Catholic sermon.

The main thing that I appreciate about reggae is that its positive music - its not like rap, which at its best is just about having fun, and only occasionally has something socially positive or constructive to say. I dont want to pigeon hole it as all being gangsta rap but there's no denying that alot of it is obsessed with sex money violence etc. We have enough of that kind of ugliness in our daily lives without confirming it through the music we listen to. Especially roots reggae - like Culture, Peter Tosh, Burning Spear - exhorts people to live upright lives and not contribute to the ugliness of the world. At the worst their pissed off about slavery and anti-pot laws. Well they probably have a right to be. I like having positive music around so that I can try to live a good life, so that's a big part of its appeal to me. Besides that it takes its time, its relaxing. Reggae doesnt have the kind of virtuoso instrument playing that good rock has or the lyrical acrobatics you find in good rap, but it does have its own laid back charm to it....

At it's best, rap is anything that the artist wills it to be. It can convey any message it wishes, with only loose guidelines to keep it from going astray. Reggae cannot manage this, as it's a very restricted genre with certain restrains placed on it because of people's expectations. 95% of rap may be as you've described it, but the other 5% is a venerable cornucopia of lyrical genius that touches on subjects that anyone with an open mind can relate to. It's worth wading through all the awful nonsense to get to, just as any genre with any potential is.

Here's the funny thing: Reggae actually makes me more irritable, anxious, and prone to violence than even Technical Death Metal. Why? I can't stand the repetitive nature of the music, the simplicity of the instrumentation, the incredibly slow tempo, or the easily placed progressions. Again, I'm no longer affected in the least by the 'mood' or 'feeling' that a genre is trying to convey, I simply seek absolute talent and intricate knowledge of music theory. So, anything that doesn't 'feed my brain', so to speak, pisses me off.

You see, we're simply two completely separate people. I don't think there's anything that could possibly convince me to like reggae, aside from a coma or an aneurism.

Yes..... Rastafari is a religion of black racism for the most part. No doubt. They use so much old testament terminologies though that I as a Christian can relate to enough of it to make it relevant. I'd really encourage you to give Peter tosh a try for reggae with content. Especially his later music was basically a vehicle for his radical politics. "day the dollar die" "watcha gonna do" "glass house" are songs that really do have something to say.

To your other point well if it doesn't appeal to you oh well taste is subjective. Rap can be fun don't get me wrong.... Every once in a while I've just got to have some gangsta rap and out comes the NWA. I find that the mood passes pretty quick though....